Why I prefer old cars

[Bryan]

Was working on my 92 Dodge Dakota truck yesterday.  Aggravating POS.  On my D24 I've only encountered difficulties because of rust holding parts (head bolts, valve guides, etc).  On my Dodge Dakota it's difficult removing bolts holding the pipes on the exhaust manifold.  They put the junction right next to the starter and steering column on the drivers side. Had to use a long extension to be able to turn the ratchet.  On the passenger side they curved the pipe just enough to keep from getting a socket on one.  Then the stupidity of no gasket, just a metal to metal junction.  Also you'd have to take both sides loose to do one side.  Same as the exhaust pipe junction to the Cat. They put the joint at the tightest spot they could find.   Went to replace the idler pulley. Rear bolt is in a long tube right in front of the thermostat housing.  You'd have to take the alternator bracket off to get to it.  Really sucks working on some modern vehicles.

[Mikec4193]

Hey Bryan

 

I am right there with you...I am currently working on an old English car and other than the quirky ways they put stuff together...it is so basic when you really look at it...

 

The new stuff is so complex...I love the way the new stuff runs and drives but I love the simplicity of the older junk...

 

Good luck on the old Dakota...

 

MikeC

[Ulu]

There really is almost nothing simpler than working on a Plymouth flat head.

 

Even my air cooled Volkswagen engine, initially designed around 1925 and based on an earlier design, was not simpler. The Volkswagen has push rods and rocker arms because it is an overhead valve engine.

 

It is indeed MUCH more difficult to check the valve clearance on the Plymouth. I have to pull the wheel & the inner fender off.  The manifold is too close for comfort. In the Volkswagen you just lay down under the back with a screwdriver and tappet wrench. If you were a big guy, you stick the jack in the socket and jack the car up a little bit. Easy Peezy.

 

But you can’t turn the flywheel from down there, so you have to crawl out and turn the engine to get all the valves.

 

Between 1925 and 1990 they made a lot of changes to increase horsepower and reduce emissions. All of these made the engine accessories more difficult to r&r.

 

Mine is a ‘73, and it is a absolutely a bit harder than the ones I worked on from the 60’s.

 

Both of these were pretty dirty engines, and engine life was quite similar between rebuilds. 50 to 60k Even worse if you drove on a lot of dirt roads.
 

But you could re-bore a Plymouth engine three times. If a Volkswagen needs more than a hone, you change the pistons and cylinders as a matched set.

 

Which is much cheaper & faster than a re-bore job, because all the machine work was done at a factory somewhere. They made something like 40 million sets of pistons and cylinders, Not including aftermarket. This makes the stuff pretty cheap.

 

Ultimately it’s a very apples and oranges comparison because the ‘47 Plymouth will tow two ‘47 VWs backwards down the road.

(Please don’t ask me to prove this but I’ve driven both cars, and this is my educated opinion.)

 

 

 

[Young Ed]

What engine is that in the Dakota? I've had a 94 since 2000 and done many repairs on it. 

[nonstop]

I like my old cars/trucks because they are not appliances and require thought and input to drive.

[Bryan]

4 hours ago, Young Ed said:

What engine is that in the Dakota? I've had a 94 since 2000 and done many repairs on it. 

It's a 3.9L V6. Engine runs fine. Just some of the poorly thought out spacing for stuff is aggravating.

[keithb7]

Old cars are great in some areas. No so in others.  I do love their simplicity. Yes indeed flathead Mopars are super easy to work on.

 

My old cars do break down from time to time. Mainly because I treat them as lab experiments sometimes. (let's try this & see what happens)

Is there a better way to learn than from your own stupid decisions? Lol. Just this past weekend even we had an incident where I thought...Better dig out the AAA card. Yet I always fix them up and get them home under their own power. Never needed a tow truck to get home yet! Knock on wood.

Try that with a new car that needs semi-conductors to breathe fire.

 

 

Edited March 4, 2022 by keithb7

[Bryan]

17 hours ago, keithb7 said:

Old cars are great in some areas. No so in others.  I do love their simplicity. Yes indeed flathead Mopars are super easy to work on.

 

My old cars do break down from time to time. Mainly because I treat them as lab experiments sometimes. (let's try this & see what happens)

Is there a better way to learn than from your own stupid decisions? Lol. Just this past weekend even we had an incident where I thought...Better dig out the AAA card. Yet I always fix them up and get them home under their own power. Never needed a tow truck to get home yet! Knock on wood.

T

 

Hate to ask a dumb question but did you have a low to no pressure radiator cap?   Can you tell why the freeze plug didn't stay?   Sorry that happened.. Dang.

[Tooljunkie]

I prefer the analog vehicles too. But my business of fixing anything and everything is what pays the bills. Did a 6.2 gas engine replacement in a super duty a couple weeks ago. That really sucked. Then diagnose abs circuit. Without a very expensive tool, i had to take wiring harness apart until i found the break. 4 hours to fix a broken wire. 
it seems the failures are more frequent,and tougher to fix. I wish i could give all the digital vehicles the boot, and stick with the old stuff. Im almost fed up. 2 more years, maybe pension myself off…

[Eneto-55]

3 hours ago, Tooljunkie said:

I prefer the analog vehicles too. But my business of fixing anything and everything is what pays the bills. Did a 6.2 gas engine replacement in a super duty a couple weeks ago. That really sucked. Then diagnose abs circuit. Without a very expensive tool, i had to take wiring harness apart until i found the break. 4 hours to fix a broken wire. 
it seems the failures are more frequent,and tougher to fix. I wish i could give all the digital vehicles the boot, and stick with the old stuff. Im almost fed up. 2 more years, maybe pension myself off…

About 12 years back I scrapped out a Chrysler T & C (2nd gen, 1993 model), and kept all of the wire harnesses, thinking maybe I could use parts of it.  As I've used some connectors over the years, I've had to strip off the electrical tape.  (Big sticky mess!) I have been really surprised at how many broken wires I have found, buried inside the harness, and still all wrapped up just like it's still in great shape inside.  This has been mostly in the engine harness, where there would have been a lot of flexing.  I also compared the strand counts on that wire to the same gauge on my P15, and the old wire is made of much finer strands, and THERE ARE NO BROKEN WIRES.  (Only deteriorated insulation.)  Another reason (in my mind) not to use commonly available automotive wire for the old car.

[Tooljunkie]

1 hour ago, Eneto-55 said:

About 12 years back I scrapped out a Chrysler T & C (2nd gen, 1993 model), and kept all of the wire harnesses, thinking maybe I could use parts of it.  As I've used some connectors over the years, I've had to strip off the electrical tape.  (Big sticky mess!) I have been really surprised at how many broken wires I have found, buried inside the harness, and still all wrapped up just like it's still in great shape inside.  This has been mostly in the engine harness, where there would have been a lot of flexing.  I also compared the strand counts on that wire to the same gauge on my P15, and the old wire is made of much finer strands, and THERE ARE NO BROKEN WIRES.  (Only deteriorated insulation.)  Another reason (in my mind) not to use commonly available automotive wire for the old car.

I agree. Its across all brands. Insulation so thin the plastic wire cover rubs through wire where it exits loom. 18 gauge for lots of it. 

[Ulu]

Years ago, a mechanic from the military told me that the only thing to use was Teflon coated wire. I have never bought any Teflon coated wire but if I ever decide to redo the Plymouth I may well use it.

 

It certainly will not be a stock restoration in any event so I don’t care about the wire not looking like cotton.

 

I’ll bet that Teflon aircraft wire is about 10 times the cost though.

[Bryan]

4 hours ago, Tooljunkie said:

I agree. Its across all brands. Insulation so thin the plastic wire cover rubs through wire where it exits loom. 18 gauge for lots of it. 

Same here. Fixed the neighbor's 2006 Cobalt. Main power wire to the locks and windows broke right where the door hinge is located.

[Eneto-55]

Deleted to start over

Edited March 5, 2022 by Eneto-55
messed it up too badly to fix

[Eneto-55]

5 hours ago, Ulu said:

Years ago, a mechanic from the military told me that the only thing to use was Teflon coated wire. I have never bought any Teflon coated wire but if I ever decide to redo the Plymouth I may well use it.

 

It certainly will not be a stock restoration in any event so I don’t care about the wire not looking like cotton.

 

I’ll bet that Teflon aircraft wire is about 10 times the cost though.

My plan is to use marine grade wire, which is tinned copper.  Two reasons, easier to solder, and better corrosion resistance.  But more expensive, sure.  Wiring is not something I want to skimp on. (What I've looked at is also of a strand count similar to what MoPar used back in those years.)

[Eneto-55]

1 hour ago, Bryan said:

Same here. Fixed the neighbor's 2006 Cobalt. Main power wire to the locks and windows broke right where the door hinge is located.

In the case of this 93 T & C, it was inside the harness, and the plastic cover & the tape looked fine, but the wire was broken inside.  But maybe it was at a junction, where the plastic coil (what ever it's called) may have gotten stiff enough that it forced all of the flexing to happen right at that point.

 

Then regarding what Bryan mentions, with all of the flex points in a vehicle that has electric in the doors, that's a problem area we don't have in our old cars.  I haven't thought to compare the strand count for those wires that go through the boot from the A pillar to the door, but maybe they DID use higher strand count for that part of the harness (and, in the mini-van, the boot where it goes into the hatch).

[cheesy]

Here's some of those wonderful wires with Soy based insulation and the resulting rodent damage. Add to the fact that the signal wires are all the same color with only a number on each end, it took a while.

 

[Ulu]

Yikes!

I hate mieces to pieces.