Ball and truion universal joint

[Bryce Mcclintock]

Hi guys had one ball and truion joint fail not a big deal ordered replacement pa k from Andy Bernbaum.  I already had a new housing that came with car replced it all got to putting the end button caps and spring washers on and went to slide on houseing and it wouldnt go so turns out the end caps are much too thick and the pin is slightly too long anyone else had this problem ? I called Andy Bernbaum and they sent another kit out was still too wide assembled i called again they just said try grinding down the buttons .? Is this a good idear or not i thought you have to get them spot on to keep housing centered on pin ?

[keithb7]

Yes I have had a similar experience when rebuilding my drive shaft. I ended up re-using a few of my original parts that looked good. I installed all new needle bearings and grease.  The new button caps were useless to me. My main objective was to add the missing large centre spring.  I replaced what I could use from the new parts kit. I installed the missing spring and she's been problem free ever since. 

 

I have come to accept that reproduction parts are more often than not, crappy replacements of the OEM parts.  I salvage what I can from OEM parts. I add bits and pieces from the offshore new parts and create something usable. Not ideal no. My '38 is 81 years old. I tend to forgive and move on to an altered plan or alternative supplier. It can be a bit of a money waste at times, but it's a hobby. I don't allow myself to get too wound up. I am grateful in some ways to have a specialized supplier like AB. Other times I curse AB and the person I am dealing with there.

[Bryce Mcclintock]

Ok good to know im not alone . I unfortunately cant salvage much from old parts a couple of the needle rollers had broken and had munted everything inside . Do you thinkn could cut the new pin shorter with some careful estimation to allow for the thicker buttons and slightly longer pin i suspect 

[Bryan]

Measure the bolt pattern on the flange. If it is 2 - 3/16" (2.1875) and 1 - 13/16" (1.84), with diagonal bolt spacing 2 7/8" (2.875), then you can buy two Spicer 2-2-349 adapters and other parts to change it to a modern system. Usually need to get another driveshaft made. It's expensive, but I made up my mind I'd rather pay for regular parts than getting screwed over with specialty stores' rare parts.  

[Bryan]

https://p15-d24.com/topic/54484-whats-the-best-driveshaft-repair/?do=findComment&comment=582636

 

[RobertKB]

The ‘46-48 Canadian Dodge D25 used a non ball and trunnion driveshaft. To me a big improvement over the ball and trunnion driveshafts in my ‘51 Dodge and ‘53 Plymouth. I actually recently pulled transmission, driveshaft, and differential from my ‘47 D25 parts car. Yokes for both tranny and diff are different. 
 

Edited February 15, 2022 by RobertKB

[Bryce Mcclintock]

Thanks guys yes id like to go using modern universal joints but ive only recently had engine done up and many other things to get car back on road and the fund pool is very empty just want to get it back o  road but thanks for that info it will be valuable in ghe future when i convert it

[Bryan]

  The pin definitely has to be centered to .006" according to my 48 Dodge manual. Don't know about yours. The buttons on the ends have to slide in the trenches, I wouldn't modify them, trying to grind them to the proper shape might be too hard. I would shorten the pin to fit in the trench with the end buttons/needle bearings on.  Get the end of the pin as flat as possible.

[jgreg53]

I couldn't get the kit from Bern auto to fit either. I had to trim down those end buttons also. So I ended up with vibration. I tried balancing the shaft with the hose clamp method and improved it some. I thought a new housing might help. 

[rallyace]

i went the rebuild way and ended up with a driveshaft that still vibrated. I took it to a driveline shop to have it balanced and they got it close but it still vibrated. I took my spare driveshaft to them to have Spicer u-joints installed and they said it would be quicker and easier for them to just build a new shaft. It cost me just a bit over $300 but was well worth it in my opinion.

[greg g]

When honda came out with the second edition of the CRV they used a very similar type of driveshaft joints.  But in this application the rear end was an independent system in which the differential carrier was bolted to the rear sub frame. The result of which was a drive shaft that never changed angle, nor slid along the travel provided by the splines.  This meant the ball portion of their joints never moved along the length provided for in the trunion, the result was both joints wore in the same spots, which over 30k miles meant that they wore those two 0laces out of tolerance causing vibrations from one or both transferring through the carrier into the sub frame.  Honda did not sell parts to repair them so a new drive shaft with both joints had to be purchased to correct the problem.  If your car is always driven with the same load over smooth roads, this same condition can occur in the ball and trunion joints.  If you have the B&T joints on both ends, some times swapping the drive shaft end for end will move the balls within the trunion enough to move them out of the worn spots in the trunion.  

 

You can test this situation by putting 300 or so pounds, a couple hefty friends, 4 or 5 bags of Sackett and a full gas tank in the car should move the suspension enough to move the balls to a different position within the trunion.  A short drive should then indicate if the vibration changes frequency, or speed of onset.  If it does, your trunions are probably out of spec when the drive line is in its "normal" home position.

 

The Honda friveshaft was about 650.00 installed, so if you can get a modern one made up with Spicer style joints on both ends for 300 or so, seems like a good deal.

Edited June 28, 2022 by greg g

[jgreg53]

has anyone ever tried turning the drives haft around?

[LeRoy]

I'm in the same boat, Bernbaum tried 3 times and they don't fit. I thought I had a goofy sized drive shaft and b&t u joints. I wish they'd have mentioned several others have had the same problem. I think I paid about $200 for ujoints that can't be used and they don't seem like refund is an option.

Edited June 15, 2022 by LeRoy

[LeRoy]

7 hours ago, LeRoy said:

I'm in the same boat, Bernbaum tried 3 times and they don't fit. I thought I had a goofy sized drive shaft and b&t u joints. I wish they'd have mentioned several others have had the same problem. I think I paid about $200 for ujoints that can't be used and they don't seem like refund is an option.

I called and spoke with them about it and they refunded the money for them. I'm pleased they handled it this way, I'm not thrilled to be stuck with no parts.

[Bryan]

Amazon.com: Spicer 2-2-349 Flange Yoke : Automotive

 

Neapco N2-3-8001KX Slip Yoke (dennysdriveshaft.com)

 

Dana Spicer 2-40-1521 Driveshaft Spline fits 3.0 inch tubing (dennysdriveshaft.com)

 

DANA SPICER 2-28-437 Driveshaft Weld Yoke for 3 inch tubing (dennysdriveshaft.com)

 

Dana Spicer 5-1310X solid body maintenance free universal joint 1310 series (dennysdriveshaft.com)         Think this works

 

The parts vary depending on whether you get a 2.5, 3.0 driveshaft.    Other sources but parts are available to convert it to modern.

[sascha_rccm]

Hi all,

As I couldn't get my U Joint together, I've searched if someone else had this issue .... I've found this post!

 

So I've ordered 2 Rebuild kits with housings and ran into the same problem. The buttons are to thick! But I didn't found any post how you've fixed your driveshaft and keeping the original  b&t universal joint. As I live in Europe, buying extra parts costs every time big money (shipping and taxes are expensive!).

 

Someone recommended to shorten the pin, but I didn't see any comments => did it work?

 

Thank you alot for helping me out!

[Bryan]

4 hours ago, sascha_rccm said:

Hi all,

As I couldn't get my U Joint together, I've searched if someone else had this issue .... I've found this post!

 

So I've ordered 2 Rebuild kits with housings and ran into the same problem. The buttons are to thick! But I didn't found any post how you've fixed your driveshaft and keeping the original  b&t universal joint. As I live in Europe, buying extra parts costs every time big money (shipping and taxes are expensive!).

 

Someone recommended to shorten the pin, but I didn't see any comments => did it work?

 

Thank you alot for helping me out!

It would probably work to shorten the pins instead of the buttons on the ends if the buttons slip over the pins.  The buttons are what are contacting the slot (ditch) and would need to be smooth and even.  I just went and bought all the conversion stuff.

[nonstop]

I did the conversion a few years ago.  It cost almost $500 for parts and to have the shaft made.  I am very glad I did it.  It really smoothed out my car at all speeds.  I am very happy I went that route.

[sascha_rccm]

12 minutes ago, nonstop said:

I did the conversion a few years ago.  It cost almost $500 for parts and to have the shaft made.  I am very glad I did it.  It really smoothed out my car at all speeds.  I am very happy I went that route.

The problem is tjat the parts will cost almost double the price when I have to add shipping and taxes to Luxembourg.... quite expensive!

[Hickory]

So my 29 has a ball and trunion, what should I check on it, rotational play?  I haven't drove this car yet and probably should check the drive line while it's in the air. The leather boots are ripped so they may be contaminated 

 

[Bryan]

1 hour ago, Hickory said:

So my 29 has a ball and trunion, what should I check on it, rotational play?  I haven't drove this car yet and probably should check the drive line while it's in the air. The leather boots are ripped so they may be contaminated 

 

Yes, probably rotational play. Service manual doesn't say anything, just that the pin is a tight fit on the shaft end. Doesn't mention play of the buttons and in the track.  Most important is the pin is a press fit on the shaft end and has to be equal distance .006 accuracy. 

[jhm1mc13]

I tried to make the trunion work.  Bad parts, vibration, lost time.  Had ball joint shaft made, problem solved.  Expensive lesson.

[Bryan]

3 minutes ago, jhm1mc13 said:

I tried to make the trunion work.  Bad parts, vibration, lost time.  Had ball joint shaft made, problem solved.  Expensive lesson.

Sorry it didn't work out. Had a few things go that way.  I just bought the modern adapter stuff and said to heck with it. I'm down near Chesterfield.

[Dartgame]

I know you said funds are tight, but consider having a spicer type driveshaft made for it. Local shop made mine, measure the distance between the companion flanges and that should be all you will need to give to the shop.

[Bryce Mcclintock]

Hi guys just to let you know I end up shortening the pin in a lathe after some measurements of old set up had to use old buttons the new ones are completely wrong in every way. All back together and seems to be smooth so lucky escape thanks for advice guys