Found my camshaft! - Pulling motor on 1948 Dodge.

[Bryan]

5 hours ago, FarmerJon said:

Sorry if you have already said, but what is your end goal of the engine build? 

Fairly stock or moderate modifications?

 

Probably mostly stock. The only things I'm changing are stuff I've had problems with. Dual headers because I broke the original. Electric fuel pump because front header now too close. Getting rid of old trunnion universals to have modern ones (you can find parts for). Shaving head maybe .040-.050".  That's about it.   Just wanting to go for drives and local parades.

[thebeebe5]

Glad to see you’re making progress on this project.   
 

Sent you a DM....   Check your inbox. 

[Bryan]

Finished taking stuff off the old block. Two oil fittings were mm not SAE.  Thought someone just put a metric fitting on that block, but when I started taking the fittings off the new block, same thing, the wrench to hold some of them needs to be metric.   Removed generator bracket, fittings, 2 valves on the new block. Only down side is that the oil dipstick tube broke off. I barely wiggled it holding it with my fingers.  Checked the old block and it was broke off also. 

[Bryan]

Drove about an hour away to look at spare car (shell) in the woods.  Motor is a D24, transmission seems the same. Was easier buying a block than cutting trees down to get to this. Still wanted to see what I have just in case I need parts. The damper on the crank hub seems okay. Radiator mount isn't dented like mine but a little rusty-er.

[Bryan]

Removed all the valves and tappets from the new block. Tagged the tappets in case I want to reuse them.  Most fit without any wobble when you try to shake them in the bores (up and halfway down).   Maybe 3 with pits or scratches I'll replace.  Tappet adjuster heads are flat and smooth.  Trying to compare camshafts to determine which is in the best shape, and if there are differences that affect ordering the timing gears. The  last 2 rear lobes have wear on the rear edge unlike other lobes with wear in the center. Find that strange.

[FarmerJon]

You could send one or both of the cams to Oregon or Delta camshaft to be reground. They both offer stock profiles as well as mild performance grinds. Oregon can resurface your lifters as well 

I would think they could measure and tell you more about the two cam profiles as well.

[Bryan]

56 minutes ago, FarmerJon said:

You could send one or both of the cams to Oregon or Delta camshaft to be reground. They both offer stock profiles as well as mild performance grinds. Oregon can resurface your lifters as well 

I would think they could measure and tell you more about the two cam profiles as well.

Appreciate the heads up.  When it gets warmer I'll look at them again. I'll have to clean the cams up and inspect the bearing surfaces to see which one is best. Both ends of the lifters look pretty good except for 1-2 look scratched. Mostly concerned about wear on the part that fits in the bores.  About how much does it cost to get a cam reground?  Approximate or worst case?

[Booger]

Dude what a journey! Thanks for taking us along for the ride..my fingernails got greasy just reading all this. Keep up the great work

[61spit]

Bryan, I had a cam with a chipped lobe that I sent to Delta Camshaft along with the 12 tappets to be ground. This was back in 2015. It was 14.50 to weld the lobe and 82.50 to regrind the cam. The lifters were refaced at 3.75 ea. shipping was 18.85. Total bill was $161.35. I didn't think that was too bad. Probably a bit more today but the turn around was quick and the cam and lifters looked like new.

[Sniper]

Generally, cam grinders can repair cam cores.  Some scratches or pitting isn't an issue, just talk to them. 

Here is Delta cam's process

 

https://deltacam.com/services/camshaft-grinding/

 

I've seen the number $329 for a reground cam kicked around.

 

These guys say $185

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/162058809135

[FarmerJon]

Oregon quoted me $89 or $99 ( I can't remember) for a mild performance grinds about a month ago. Lifter refacing was $3-4 each. 

Plus shipping, maybe a flat rate Gameboard box would fit it, around $24, each way.

I had a Nash V8 cam done there several years ago.

 

Delta did a import cam modification, with radical grinding, think it was $90+ all the shipping.

Edited January 21, 2022 by FarmerJon

[keithb7]

Allow me to have fun with the valvetrain for a moment. 
 

The cam lobes being scored up. Here’s my theory. 
 

The rear most valves get the the least cooled water from the water pump. Furthest back, way at the end of the water distribution tube. By the time the water gets there, its pretty hot again. High heat causes metal to expand. Let’s assume someone was not doing good car maintenance at some point in the past.  Not up on their tappet clearances. As valves recess, tappet clearances shrink. Add extra heat here due to limited water cooling.  Now we have quite tight valve-to-tappet clearances at the very rear of the engine.

The Engine starts to develop a miss. Driver is on a hiway trip a long ways from home. He pushes through to get home. Cam is turning at 1/2 engine rpm speed. So lets assume 1500 times per minute for the 5 hour drive back home.  Tappet cannot float nicely on the cam. Its being forced down to ride on the cam lobe due to pressure from the valve return spring. No tappet clearance remember. Cam continues to turn as the car is forced along the hiway home. The oil is also quite aged because the owner is lazy with his maintenance. The oil has lost most of its lubricity by now. Should have been changed quite a while ago.  The oil has lots of soot in it too because burnt exhaust gasses are entering the engine crankcase at an exhaust valve that is no longer seating. Soot is more abrasive than sand. Bad stuff to allow to build up in your crankcase.  The now zero clearance area between the tappet and cam lobe, has soot in the oil, grinding away as driver hurries on his way home.  Like sand rubbing between your finger and thumb. Very abrasive. 
 

The tappet stops spinning on the cam lobe. It gets slightly skewed in its bore due to no tappet to valve clearance. The valve too gets slightly skewed in its guide. The exponential wear rate and destruction of the engine has begun.  Its only a matter of time.   Eventually the car owner parks his old Mopar in a field due to poor running engine. 25 years later it’s rescued. A new owner tears it down and posts his findings on P15-D24.   “Look at this odd cam wear. Lots of sludge in the crankcase.”  (Scarcasm)
 

It Could happen!  Lol.
 

The moral of this story is? Change your oil and set your valve clearance. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by keithb7

[Bryan]

If the price was still in the range or below the price of a new camshaft I'd go for it. I'd just have to research to find the lift/duration to tell them.  Wouldn't really want anything wild, just a mild cam, or one that had any improvements Dodge made in the later years (up to 59). I've seen new cams being advertised (think on VPW) for $150.  Probably costs more in most places.  Do they repair or resurface the bearing journals also? Seems like that would be hard to do if they are a set dimension - 1.998 front, 1.966, 1.935 and 1.248" for the rear bearing journal.    When it gets warmer I'm going to clean them up better and take more pictures of the surfaces. Neither one is terrible.

[Sniper]

If there is a bad journal, they add weld to it and remachine back to spec.  Same with lobes.  Pretty much any issue with a cam can be repaired.

[Bryan]

Still researching..snowed here which rarely happens and presently 24F.    Found this and thought might be helpful.   230/251 Cam Specs... - Power Wagon Advertiser Forums

[FarmerJon]

Interesting. 

Does anyone have an account there to download the PDFs? I wonder if they are still viable after all these years.

Looking at factory HP ratings, in 1954 the peak torque is at 1600 vs 1200, indicating a cam change, wouldn't be surprised if it changed again around 57-58, when they jumped to 8-1 Cr. 

Also curious to know if Delta cams ever made an 'improved late cam', if so it would likely be a great choice for a mostly stock cruiser. 

[Bryan]

2 hours ago, FarmerJon said:

Interesting. 

Does anyone have an account there to download the PDFs?

That's what I was hoping..

[Bryan]

Besides taking pics of camshafts, thought I'd try my new stud extractor and the battery impact wrench on the old block. Remember the broke head bolts?  That's solved.  

[Bryan]

Took a few pictures of my 2 camshafts.  First is of the D46 camshaft 111530200 that had slightly higher lift.  It is stained brown, maybe burnt oil, doesn't seem like rust.  

[Bryan]

This is the cam from the D24 motor, # 864241. The fuel pump was scratching that lobe.  It was also rusty, had to clean it up with oil and 600 grit (lightly).

[Bryan]

22 hours ago, FarmerJon said:

Interesting. 

Does anyone have an account there to download the PDFs? I wonder if they are still viable after all these years.

Looking at factory HP ratings, in 1954 the peak torque is at 1600 vs 1200, indicating a cam change, wouldn't be surprised if it changed again around 57-58, when they jumped to 8-1 Cr. 

Also curious to know if Delta cams ever made an 'improved late cam', if so it would likely be a great choice for a mostly stock cruiser. 

I just went and registered. I'll see when process is complete.

[Sniper]

I registered yesterday, still not able to access it.

[Bryan]

16 minutes ago, Sniper said:

I registered yesterday, still not able to access it.

Did you get the "follow the link" email?  I haven't yet.   If not it could be the admins only work Mon-Fridays.  Hope so.

[Sniper]

I got the follow the link email, I think that is automated.  Clicked on the link and validated.

[FarmerJon]

A lot of times files and photos get 'lost' over time. One of the big let downs of the internet. If guy is still active, you may be able to message him for the files.