0 vs 1 gauge cables

[Bryan]

On 9/13/2021 at 10:54 AM, Sam Buchanan said:

If what you have is working well then that's all you need. The only point I will make in regard to your post is that 0 gauge cables are not expensive and are readily available. I used this vendor and had my custom-made cables in about a week. Two battery cables, a chassis ground cable and a starter cable were $40 shipped to my door.

 

https://www.batterycablesusa.com/1-0-gauge-battery-cables-0-awg

 

 

I measured the copper on my battery cable and it was .34-.36 inches diameter.  A little squashed so not perfectly round.  Think charts on internet showed this was 00 cable so that's what I ordered last week.  Sam B - mine were $62 but I got the extreme insulation and ordered a 4AWG ground for near the front fender terminal to attach separate headlight ground.

[48jumpdoors]

On 11/27/2021 at 5:57 AM, chrysler1941 said:

Strap from original battery ground stud bolt under generator to frame. 

Straps connecting transmission to frame on both sides. (clutch  housing bolts)

Strap from starter bolt to engine. (see thread about sluggish starters)

Straps connecting rear body to frame both sides (upper shock stud mount to body mount)

thanks for the info and just for clarification, you say to put ground straps from both sides of the trans to each frame rail? so I envision a strap using a bolt from the clutch housing to each frame rail. Are you using an existing bolt or hole in the frame or drilling a new hole in the frame rail? Thanks again.

[Sam Buchanan]

9 hours ago, 48jumpdoors said:

thanks for the info and just for clarification, you say to put ground straps from both sides of the trans to each frame rail? so I envision a strap using a bolt from the clutch housing to each frame rail. Are you using an existing bolt or hole in the frame or drilling a new hole in the frame rail? Thanks again.

 

There are a lot of our cars with reliable electrical systems without all those ground straps. You might start with making sure you have good grounds between the battery, engine and frame and only add other grounds if you need them. These are the only ground leads on my car and the starter and lights work fine.

 

Battery to engine, battery to frame. Make sure all your lights have good body grounds.

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Sam Buchanan

[Bryan]

Sam - I did like yours except all black cables 00 and a separate lighting ground 4 AWG.

[rallyace]

The current carrying capacity difference between 1 gauge (180 amps) and 0 gauge (200 amps) is minimal using chart data but that is for a continuous load. With short cable lengths, open air cable exposure and short term, high amperage loading the current carrying capacity is much larger, more on the terms of 3x to 5x the continuous loading. Now this is where the clean connections are paramount. You can easily have a cable with a much higher current carrying capacity than the terminations on the high amperage carrying parts of the system (battery, starter solenoid, starter motor, ground connection to the block). If it takes less than 15 seconds to start a cold motor then the cable size difference is negligible. If it take longer due to slow cranking, check and clean your connections. Don't forget that all of that starting current must pass through the starter motor frame to the block so those two bolts that hold the starter to the block are part of the circuit. Sometimes we get carried away when cleaning and painting our engines and accessories and forget that electricity does not pass through paint very well and will need to use those mounting bolts to be part of the circuit.

[chrysler1941]

13 hours ago, 48jumpdoors said:

thanks for the info and just for clarification, you say to put ground straps from both sides of the trans to each frame rail? so I envision a strap using a bolt from the clutch housing to each frame rail. Are you using an existing bolt or hole in the frame or drilling a new hole in the frame rail? Thanks again.

Yes to each frame rail. I've been lucky to find existing holes nearby. But frames differ. This is for transmission governor and solenoid.  Others might think all this overkill, but don't skip grounding your starter at bolts. Not the ones to engine but one of the two long thin ones , commutator plate to pinion housing. Se photo. 3 +4

Huge difference.

Edited December 3, 2021 by chrysler1941

[Bryan]

In my opinion you don't need a transmission ground strap unless there was some electrical device on the transmission like a solenoid or relay. I can see a strap for the rear lighting area to frame. Whiles tearing mine apart finding a lot of rubber strips separating fender parts.  One would think for the starter if you make sure the metal mounting surfaces were bare metal and not rusted (and stayed that way) that would be enough. Some high temp dielectric grease?

[Bryan]

Look at the data sheet on this..  https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/mg-chemicals/8481-1/6035522?utm_adgroup=Product Detail Pages&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Dynamic Search_EN_RLSA_Buyers&utm_term=%2Fproduct-detail%2F&utm_content=Product Detail Pages&utm_id=bi_cmp-384476622_adg-1297423946242034_ad-81089045896429_dat-2332888796292693:aud-808187301:loc-190_dev-c_ext-_prd-&msclkid=56449bef02b117f1e03cfa4466014273

[Plymouthy Adams]

7 minutes ago, Bryan said:

In my opinion you don't need a transmission ground strap unless there was some electrical device on the transmission like a solenoid or relay. I can see a strap for the rear lighting area to frame. Whiles tearing mine apart finding a lot of rubber strips separating fender parts.  One would think for the starter if you make sure the metal mounting surfaces were bare metal and not rusted (and stayed that way) that would be enough. Some high temp dielectric grease?

While to many this seems overkill, and in all things being equal which is often the case in new productions....ground connections through normal bolting, clamping and such is pretty much assured and of little problem.  However let age, wear, corrosion and other items of neglect or in many cases overly rebuilt (paint coatings) one can and does suffer from some high resistance issues.  While many of the above mentioned are indeed ground straps, their application if more of a bonding application tying the components to ground equally.  Many bonding issues can be a simple strap of metal or ensuring clean metal to metal in all applications.  As in the case of the starter above....the head is securely bolted to the block and one can assume a good transfer...but as the winding are taken to ground through the brush, poor grounds say loose bolt, paint issues or rust...then the securing starter bolts are not the sole source as these are bonding grounds though assembly contact point to each other.  Little v. drop here, little v. drop there and you entering into runaway effect. 

[chrysler1941]

1 hour ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

While to many this seems overkill, and in all things being equal which is often the case in new productions....ground connections through normal bolting, clamping and such is pretty much assured and of little problem.  However let age, wear, corrosion and other items of neglect or in many cases overly rebuilt (paint coatings) one can and does suffer from some high resistance issues.  While many of the above mentioned are indeed ground straps, their application if more of a bonding application tying the components to ground equally.  Many bonding issues can be a simple strap of metal or ensuring clean metal to metal in all applications.  As in the case of the starter above....the head is securely bolted to the block and one can assume a good transfer...but as the winding are taken to ground through the brush, poor grounds say loose bolt, paint issues or rust...then the securing starter bolts are not the sole source as these are bonding grounds though assembly contact point to each other.  Little v. drop here, little v. drop there and you entering into runaway effect. 

Exactly. Thanks for explaining it in more correct English.

[48jumpdoors]

On 12/3/2021 at 7:11 AM, Bryan said:

Sam - I did like yours except all black cables 00 and a separate lighting ground 4 AWG.

I am starting in on my 1948 Plymouth 4dr after 20 years of sitting so I know that ground connections are going to be an issue as I get into this Ol' girl among other things.  You say here that you have a lighting ground? Where is that connected ? I see that Sam mentioned a lighting ground as well. Yours there looks quite a bit larger than what I would think you need at a light housing. Also I see that my Dad had been starting on 12v and running on 6v. and thats another situation that I have to put back to original and will have questions on that as well. Thanks guys   

[busycoupe]

Years ago Don Coatney advocated using a ground strap from the body to the engine. Then, of couse, the engine has to be connected to the positive battery terminal.  I copied his ground strap and have had no problems since. 

[Bryan]

17 minutes ago, 48jumpdoors said:

I am starting in on my 1948 Plymouth 4dr after 20 years of sitting so I know that ground connections are going to be an issue as I get into this Ol' girl among other things.  You say here that you have a lighting ground? Where is that connected ? I see that Sam mentioned a lighting ground as well. Yours there looks quite a bit larger than what I would think you need at a light housing. 

I'm going to run it near the lighting terminal on the driver's side vertical panel near the horn in front where the radiator front faces.  It will ground the lights and the fender also just to make sure anything else using the body as a ground is well grounded. I figure the ground cable attached to the motor will handle the starter.  Yeah, could have been 8 AWG, a few dollars more made it 4 AWG.

[48jumpdoors]

2 hours ago, Bryan said:

I'm going to run it near the lighting terminal on the driver's side vertical panel near the horn in front where the radiator front faces.  It will ground the lights and the fender also just to make sure anything else using the body as a ground is well grounded. I figure the ground cable attached to the motor will handle the starter.  Yeah, could have been 8 AWG, a few dollars more made it 4 AWG.

and then just to beat this horse into submission the other end will be connected to the frame?

[knuckleharley]

40 minutes ago, 48jumpdoors said:

and then just to beat this horse into submission the other end will be connected to the frame?

You just can't beat ground straps to the frame.

[Bryan]

6 hours ago, knuckleharley said:

You just can't beat ground straps to the frame.

Other end would go to the battery ground terminal like Sam's since it's so close. When you think of it, there aren't many other electrical devices on the vehicle.  Lights and horn up front, solenoid, horn relay, regulator and brake switch near battery area, items in dash area, at the rear lights and fuel sender. I reckon you could use the long frame box running the length of the vehicle as a grounding point, as long as the straps connection had a good shiny metal connection and dielectric grease on it.  Fenders have rubber strips separating panels for squeak control, and I have removed tons of rusty bolts. Reckon besides going to the battery I could have another small strap from terminal to frame.

[Bryan]

Rubber strips..

[knuckleharley]

4 hours ago, Bryan said:

 Reckon besides going to the battery I could have another small strap from terminal to frame.

Wasn't this originally done at the factory?

[Bryan]

1 hour ago, knuckleharley said:

Wasn't this originally done at the factory?

Haven't run across any yet.  

[48jumpdoors]

16 hours ago, Bryan said:

Other end would go to the battery ground terminal like Sam's since it's so close. When you think of it, there aren't many other electrical devices on the vehicle.  Lights and horn up front, solenoid, horn relay, regulator and brake switch near battery area, items in dash area, at the rear lights and fuel sender. I reckon you could use the long frame box running the length of the vehicle as a grounding point, as long as the straps connection had a good shiny metal connection and dielectric grease on it.  Fenders have rubber strips separating panels for squeak control, and I have removed tons of rusty bolts. Reckon besides going to the battery I could have another small strap from terminal to frame.

ok got it! thanks guys

[OUTFXD]

Anyone happen to have a link to The Sluggish Starter thread?  I looked but cant find it.