1946 WD15 rear end swap...and full replumb of brakes

[lostviking]

I'm just starting a thread. Won't have the rear for a bit, I just ordered it.

 

Mopar 8 1/4 with 3.55 gears from a Jeep Cherokee. I bought it from B&R auto wrecking and it was less than $500 delivered to my house.

 

Once it's here I can assess what needs to be done. I'm going to order the perches and I can located and tack them at least. I have a 140A welder, but I think I'll ask a friend to weld them in for me and ensure I get a good weld.

 

I'll keep a log of what I needed to do once I get the axle assembly here. I'm planning on putting new springs in, but I don't know right now if I can use the 1/2 ton ones or if I need to use the 3/4 ton springs. Anyone know if the springs have the same size holes?

 

If I can get the 1/2 ton, then I can order some with a drop and get the rear end lower. Otherwise I'll see about just putting them over the leafs and see how that works. I've abandoned the idea of doing a whole front end change to IFS, due to the logistics and the cost. I will rebuild and necessary and change the springs up there also. Then it's a disk break conversion. I've read the threads and I think either of the two discussed work.

 

More to follow.

[lostviking]

I deleted all the previous posts about why I'll never do business with B&R Auto wrecking again. Cluttered up the thread.

 

After the ordeal, my rear end was just delivered. I can see the drums are not included (looking at it via my security camera), but I didn't really care about those. I planned on a total rebuild. Now at least, assuming it's not bend, cracked..., I'll get started on that.

 

I'll give it the look see once I get home tonight.

 

I'm sorry, but I would NOT recommend this vendor to anyone. They took way too long to resolve something that was their mistake in the first place, didn't communicate or even respond to calls and emails. I found a better year at a lower cost also. Steer clear is my recommendation.

Edited September 12, 2021 by lostviking

[lostviking]

The rear assembly was as promised. The drums were the only thing missing, and they said no guarantee on them...wasn't planning on using anything from the original brakes but the various brackets and adjusters anyway. Turns fine and is the 3.55 they said it was. Even has the e-brake cables.

 

Too bad they were such a bunch of ********* to deal with.

 

Anyway, I'll be tearing into it and inspecting everything. Might not need to do all the bearings from the feel of things, but I'll only know that when I take the brake shoes and everything off and open the cover. Here's hoping

 

[ggdad1951]

glad it finally showed up...now you have s tory to tell (one of many) once the truck is done! 

 

[lostviking]

Got out into the garage today and took the lid off. Very nice inside, no damage to anything. The bearings all feel velvety smooth. Spun the two axles and looked at all the gears in the spider assembly...no problems.

 

New gasket and lube and rebuild the brakes....oh, and cut the old mounts all off and weld on the new ones

 

Ordered drums, wheel cylinders (although these don't show leaks...why not?), pads and a hardware kit. Still want to get a new dual chamber master. Not sure if I'm going to use the Toyota I've read about here, or a Cherokee one.

 

Plenty of video's online so I won't document this. More fun to come.

 

Then I just need to get rid of the stock axle assembly. I'll have a working truck by then, so I might just go drop it off at a local yard. I'm sure they will take it for free.

Edited August 14, 2021 by lostviking
master cylinder

[lostviking]

In case anyone is watching...I'm planning on finishing the front brake swap out first, since that end is already up on jack stands. The problem is my kit is delayed as the vendor is a bit behind right now.

 

I'll finish that thread, then come back here as soon as I get that part done and put the truck back on tires.

 

Until then, I'll just be cutting the old hardware off my axle case. 

[lostviking]

OK, plans...

 

I went out today with the grinder and some 5 inch cut off wheels and got the original spring perches and shock mounts cut off the new axle. Too bad they were 1/2 inch off, they were really nice pieces and welds were great. Oh well. I have the new ones and new U bolts. As soon as I get the front back on the ground I'll locate the new axle.

 

I've got all the parts to rebuild the brakes, but I'm going to wait until I've bolted it in before I do that.

 

Everyone have a great Saturday!

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by lostviking
double posted a picture

[lostviking]

Not much happening while I wait for the parts to install my front brakes...they were out of stock on the plated caliper mounting plates. They are shipping me mine bare and I'll paint them before installing.

 

On the rear end subject, I went out with a flap wheel today and ground off the remnants of the old leaf perches and cleaned the surrounding area. Now I have clean metal to weld to...once the front of the truck in back on the ground.

 

Have another great Saturday everyone.

[lostviking]

Fronts are "installed" but not plumbed. I'll be doing that complete from a new master cylinder to both ends of the truck.

 

I have the old mounts removed and the tubes are ready to have something welded to them.

 

 

 

The old stuff is serviceable, but I will rebuild it all. I've got new everything, but the wheel cylinders are not leaking and I'm going to put it into the truck with just the new drums installed. Then I can back it into the driveway and have a bit of room to work.

 

Edited September 12, 2021 by lostviking
Added to it.

[lostviking]

You can see the old front brakes in that first shot. I need to get rid of those. Too bad if they end up at the salvage yard. They were in good working order, just wanted disks.

 

I'm done for this weekend, but next I'll yank the old rear end and get the new one placed. The old one is probably going to end up at the salvage yard also. Too bad.

 

I've been buying some of the Cherokee parking brake brackets, at least the ones I can find. Same with the front cable. I'll use that as a starting point and fabricate what I need to hook the original handle up to the rear axle. When I'm doing the rear, I'll be removing the stock setup on the rear of the transmission. I will keep that so if I get rid of BOTH OF THE 3 SPEED TRANSMISSIONS I HAVE, I'll have it to send along to their new homes.

Edited September 12, 2021 by lostviking

[lostviking]

Got out there and pulled the old axle today. Didn't get the new one placed, because I screwed up and bought 2" perches, and the truck needs 1.75". Those will be here tomorrow.

 

Here are some pictures of today...sitting on my motorcycle jack under the truck.

 

 

 

 

 

I'd like to remove a few leafs, but I'm not entirely sure how. Anyone?

 

The old axle and old front brakes. Be a darn shame if I have to dump them at the wrecking yards, but if nobody wants them that is where they will end up. That rebuilt transmission in the background is also headed that way. Too bad, they are all serviceable.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by lostviking

[Lingle]

I removed a few leaf springs from my B3F.  what I did was clamp the springs together, then cut the bolt/nut/rivet that holds the leaf pack together.  the cross bolts that go between the ears I also removed those.  to re-assemble I used a allen bolt and nut to fasten the pack back together, made new steel spacers for the cross bolt locations and drilled new holes given the spring pack changes for those cross bolts.  not overly clear here but you can see the nut at the top and barely see the lower bolt head I ground down to fit in the mating hole on the leaf spring perch.

 

i kept the springs that had the vertical U cross bolt mounts.  I went from a 10 leaf pack down to 6 to start.  well actually it was a 10 + 4 overload, but the overloads were a separate unit all together so easily removed.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Lingle
added more details

[kencombs]

Removing leafs is easy.  Deciding which ones best to remove is sort of trial and error.  Remove the tie bolt from the center of the spring pack and take it to your local parts store.  Ask for a 'spring tie bolt' shorter than the original.  They are a stock item and come in various sizes.  Most are threaded long enough that getting an exact fit isn't important, just bolt together without the leafs you want to omit and cut the excess bolt off.  Once you are happy with the result, you can deal with the leaf clips.  I like to just make up new ones rather than modify what is there. 

 

Every time I'v modded a spring stack it took a couple of tries to get where I wanted to be.  assemble, drive, add/subtract leafs, repeat until height and ride are OK.

[lostviking]

On 9/20/2021 at 7:05 AM, Lingle said:

I removed a few leaf springs from my B3F.  what I did was clamp the springs together, then cut the bolt/nut/rivet that holds the leaf pack together.  the cross bolts that go between the ears I also removed those.  to re-assemble I used a allen bolt and nut to fasten the pack back together, made new steel spacers for the cross bolt locations and drilled new holes given the spring pack changes for those cross bolts.  not overly clear here but you can see the nut at the top and barely see the lower bolt head I ground down to fit in the mating hole on the leaf spring perch.

 

i kept the springs that had the vertical U cross bolt mounts.  I went from a 10 leaf pack down to 6 to start.  well actually it was a 10 + 4 overload, but the overloads were a separate unit all together so easily removed.

 

Where did you pick up those top plates? I'm fabricating some, but I'd rather have a set that have the bent edges. I can radius the edge....but....

 

 

[Lingle]

4 hours ago, lostviking said:

 

Where did you pick up those top plates? I'm fabricating some, but I'd rather have a set that have the bent edges. I can radius the edge....but....

 

 

 

I believe I got them off of Amazon.  Since I am running Ford axles, I got a set of top plates that fit a Ford Sterling 10.25" axle, the only issue is my rear springs are, I think, 2" wide and the Ford ran 2.5" springs, so when I made my lift blocks, I had to put spacers on them to keep the slack between the u-bolts and the lift block to limit side to side motion.

 

here is the link to the plates I bought: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MDQ65WR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I think they make other options and sizes as well, it may be better to go to Ruff Stuff website to find what you are looking for.

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Lingle

[lostviking]

Thanks, but I am still using the stock leafs, 1.75 inch. I cut some 1/4 inch plate at work and located the holes on a mill with a DRO and a center drill. Then, since I only have a small amount of time to work there (I am not a machinist, I'm an engineer), I finished the holes at home using my carbide bits and a hand drill. It takes a bit.

 

I won't be using them permanently because I found some online for around $8 plus shipping. I just don't want to wait for delivery...so I'll get the rear end placed and the angle done using these. I'll only tack weld the mounts. The plate I used was part of a full floater kit I've had for a lot of years. I used a band saw to use the sides off with the 3 inch semi-circles. I'll use them to make some new shock mounts and weld them in place on the tube.

 

I'll take some pictures later. Right now it's all talk

 

Some of this has been design on the fly. I didn't measure the old tubes and they were smaller. I was originally planning on using the cast plates that go under the springs and had the shock mount on them. That didn't go well last night, so I've had to adapt.

[lostviking]

Small amount of progress today, while I wait for the leaf top plates that should arrive tomorrow. I went out and got the rear end centered. Its sitting on a couple of jack stands, and I've got my motor cycle lift under the center section. There is a 2x4 under the front where the pinion enters. I can adjust the angle of rotation pretty easy that way. The leaf springs will be able to support the weight of the truck, sitting on the jack stands.

 

Once I get the top plates tomorrow, I'll get the leafs semi secured. I'll leave the u-bolts just loose enough that I can rotate the diff a bit to set the angle. Then, I can tack the spring perches.

 

When they are tacked, I'll remove the rear axle again so I can fully weld them in with some room to work.

 

 

 

I still need to replicate some shock mounts, but I have some material that already has the 3 inch semi-circle cut, and some large diameter bolt holes. I've got four of them, so my plan is to put the shock between them and run a bolt through. Tack and move the shock for a full weld.

 

Hopefully all this goes pretty smooth. We'll see.

Edited September 25, 2021 by lostviking

[lostviking]

Well I guess the stars aligned, because the top plates got delivered a short time ago. On a Sunday!

 

I installed them and let the axle hang from the leafs. I've tried to line them up vertically but they might still need a few more taps from a hammer. Today I just wanted to get the leafs secured by the u-bolts. I did not tighten them to torque, or even that close....just took up any slack.

 

 

 

 

Next I need to get the flange off the rear of  the drive shaft and attach the u-joint to the diff. Then I can rotate as necessary to get the angle right. When I'm going that the jack stands will be placed under the axle again to put the weight on the leaf springs. I'll eyeball it with the wheels to try and get the height the same as when it sits on the tires, then check the drive shaft angle.

 

Then we tack weld. That's a job for tomorrow. The washers are a bit larger in diameter than fit to the inner edge of the that angle bend on the top plates also. I'm going to grind each on a bit so that they are able to lay completely flat on the top plates.

 

See you again after the fun tomorrow.

 

P.S. One last note. I'm going to pull some of the leafs, but not immediately.

Edited September 26, 2021 by lostviking

[lostviking]

Maybe a crazy idea. Should I put the wheels on it and set it on the ground and bounce the bed a few times to help align everything? Just a thought...

[DJ194950]

At least get the stands under the axle and do your bounces. Not left under the frame.

 

My 2 cents.

 

DJ

Edited September 26, 2021 by DJ194950
sp

[lostviking]

10 minutes ago, DJ194950 said:

At least get the stands under the axle and do your bounces. Not left under the frame.

 

My 2 cents.

 

DJ

LOL, I wasn't planning on leaving the jack stands under the frame. The idea was to get the trunk on it's suspension.

[lostviking]

Baby steps. Today I got the rear wheels back on and set it on the ground. Everything is just for mockup right now. I got the drive shaft connected to the Jeep differential and the angle is about 5-6 degrees. That looks to be the same as the exit angle up front, but I'll check it with an angle finder before I tack the spring perches.

 

Not shown, is that I took the Y block for the rear brake lines off the old axle and swapped it in. I may still use the relatively new 5/16 inch hardline back up to the front. Haven't decided that yet.

 

 

 

I know the U-bolts look funky in this shot, but they are nearly vertical right now. I'm a nit picker, so they will be as perfect as I can make them. Same with centering the spring perches on the leafs.

 

 

Since it's all still "loose" I can fine tune the drive shaft angle if it's not perfect yet. My phone does an angle measurement in the photo app when it detects a long flat surface like the top of the shaft...it thinks it's 5-6 deg. We'll see.

Edited September 27, 2021 by lostviking

[Merle Coggins]

Driveshaft angle isn't the important one. You need to match the pinion shaft angle to the transmission tail shaft angle. The best way to do that is to measure the u-joint flange angles with the driveshaft removed. A magnetic angle finder tool is your friend here. 

[kencombs]

1 hour ago, Merle Coggins said:

Driveshaft angle isn't the important one. You need to match the pinion shaft angle to the transmission tail shaft angle. The best way to do that is to measure the u-joint flange angles with the driveshaft removed. A magnetic angle finder tool is your friend here. 

Yep.   Just be sure the frame and suspension is at design ride height before taking those readings.   The actual driveshaft angle is unimportant, within reason of course.   Lifted trucks with huge tires need to worry about that.  Not us with normalish trucks. 

[lostviking]

Advice taken.

 

I don't own a digital angle finder, but I've got an excuse to buy one now

Edited September 28, 2021 by lostviking