What to do...

[ratfinkxxx]

 I recently bought a 36 P2. Runs, drives, stops. Hasn't had many miles in the last 40 years. Engine smokes on decel, leaks oil like the Exxon Valdez, mostly the rear main seal. Second gear synchro is shot. Clutch isn't great either. Lots of deferred maintenance. Cooling system, oil sludge etc. 56k on the odo.

 I would like to have a relatively reliable driver without breaking the bank. I would like to  be able to get on the highway without being run over.

 Do I do the maintenance and drive it until something breaks?

Have the engine and trans rebuilt and put in a dual m/c for safety?

Find a good running 218 or 230?

Or do an engine/trans swap?

I am not a fabricator and don't have a shop. I have a 2 car garage and have decent mechanical abilities.

I would appreciate some input as which direction to go. Thanks in advance. Terry

 

 

[John Fleming]

Terry my suggestion have your car looked over by an experienced restoration shop. Have the shop inspect the frame , the suspension and the fuel system as well as wheels and tires .  If these parts are safe and sound next have a complete brake system  check .  If problems are found in these areas  do not drive the car. Have it brought back to home on a rollback .  If no problems are found enjoy the drive home.

[Sniper]

John points out some good things to consider.  Once those are sorted then you can address the other issues mentioned.

 

In my case the original engine is still in my car and it runs decent.  Some oil leakage and maintenance issues like yours though.  My plan is to take the core 230 I bought and rebuild it paying special attention to sealing and the other idiosyncrasies these engines have.  I do plan to hot rod the 230 and I'd rather do that then break my original 218 hot rodding it.  My clutch linkage needs new bushings, the brakes will get updated to discs and a dual reservior M/C.  Things like that are not necessarily something that has to be done all at once so you can do it in groups having fun and not breaking the bank.  Plenty of resources hear to help, the search function is your friends and lots of experience also to help sort out the questions that will arise.  Good luck.

[keithb7]

Your story sounds a lot like my 1938 P6 story. I wanted a good reliable driver to enjoy.  Mine came with a replaced 25" long engine. It barely ran. I started out by getting it running and stopping. I spent the first year going over a lot of stuff. I rebuilt the original brakes. I replaced probably 60% of the electrical wiring. I got the fuel system sorted out completely. New tires. I dropped the oil pan, removed all the sludge. Everything in the ignition system, got replaced. Rear axle assembly rebuilt. Full tune up. 

 

It was a pretty drivable after that first winter of my efforts.  I drove it the whole next spring/summer/fall (2020). I had a few periods where I had the car put down again that maiden year, while I addressed newly found issues. Issues that turned up once I started driving it regularly. My tranny synchro and bearings were shot too. I rebuilt the tranny. Replaced the clutch disc. The engine was a little leaky at the rear main, not too bad. As the weather heated up, so did the water in the block. I pulled the rad and had it re-cored, along with a new water pump and thermostat.  By now she was pretty reliable. Going down hills, the exhaust showed  little smoke. Compression was ok between 90-100 psi. Fall 2020 rolled around. I decided to dig into the engine. I pulled it and found a broken compression ring, some valve guide wear, and some pretty good valve seat wear. So I tore it right apart and ordered my engine rebuild parts.  I am currently waiting to get it back from the machine shop. My car is a constant work in-progress. I get to drive and enjoy it along the journey.

 

How much have I spent? I don't know. I don't want to know, so I don't keep a tally.  It's my hobby. Aside from the block machining and a new exhaust system, I have done pretty-well done all the work myself.  Lots of help here on this site when needed. I don't have a "shop" either. I have a 2 car garage with no hoist. The car is easy to work on. You can probably do everything you want right at home. Pending your health and body condition. 

 

A good old car "driver" without spending a ton? Well, thats subjective. If you do mostly all your own labor you'll be saving a ton of money. You already have some tools and skills? Well you are already well on your way. Body and paint? Well, thats completely outside of my skill set. It would indeed cost a ton to pay and have it done right. More money I think, then I am willing to pay out probably for my P6, at this time. In the future? Possibly.

 

"Not getting run off the hi-way".  In a 1936 car , I sure don't want to be driving faster than 50-55 MPH. Nor very often.  Even in a 30's car with updated brakes, tires, suspension, steering etc...It's a 1930's car. At the time, a leading safety feature was laminated glass. That's about it. The stock 201 ci 23" long engine was replaced with a 1953 25" long engine by a previous owner. It will be re-built to a 237 ci Desoto engine. It will have ample torque and acceleration to keep up with average traffic. It will still have a 3 speed tranny with the 4.11 rear end. I still won't won't be driving faster than 50-55 mph. I'll just get there a lot quicker.  Sure you can add an OD unit. It's not for me. I have zero interest in trying to keep up with anyone on an interstate hi-way anywhere.

 

If you just want a reliable old driver, find a car already done. Someone will have spent $30,000 and you'll get it for $15,000. If you want to enjoy the old car hobby, learn a ton along the way, feel proud of what you've done, and meet great helpful people along the way.... Take an old car and do it up yourself.  Don't keep track of the monetary costs. Measure it's worth by how much you've learned. How much fun you had. Your skills developed. The great memories you made driving it. The rewards. The experience. You cannot put a price on that. It will change you.

 

Good luck whatever you decide. We're here to help. - K

 

My '38 is seen here.  Worth every dime I have spent.

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by keithb7

[MackTheFinger]

39 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

Someone will have spent $30,000 and you'll get it for $15,000

 

Truly spoken! I've watched some of your videos lately, love your cars and what you've done with them!  

[DJK]

keithb7, your story is so familiar. The first winter (2020) I went thru my Cranbrook mechanically and had the seats done. Kept expense records along the way, drove it 3500 miles during the summer. This winter the engine is out and apart at the machine shop, actually looks very good for 69 yo engine. Once I ordered the needed engine parts, I stopped keeping records, like you say, it's my hobby, I will never get out of it what I put into and I don't care. I just enjoy working and driving it.

[knuckleharley]

7 hours ago, ratfinkxxx said:

 I recently bought a 36 P2. Runs, drives, stops. Hasn't had many miles in the last 40 years. Engine smokes on decel, leaks oil like the Exxon Valdez, mostly the rear main seal. Second gear synchro is shot. Clutch isn't great either. Lots of deferred maintenance. Cooling system, oil sludge etc. 56k on the odo.

 I would like to have a relatively reliable driver without breaking the bank. I would like to  be able to get on the highway without being run over.

 Do I do the maintenance and drive it until something breaks?

Have the engine and trans rebuilt and put in a dual m/c for safety?

Find a good running 218 or 230?

Or do an engine/trans swap?

I am not a fabricator and don't have a shop. I have a 2 car garage and have decentromechanical abilities.

I would appreciate some input as which direction to go. Thanks in advance. Terry

 

 

Yes on the dual master cylinder,as well as new copper-nickel brake lines and brake hoses.

No,on the engine rebuilt/replacement until you find out you actually need it. Chances are a few oil changes every hundred miles or so and driving it at highway speeds will "cure" what ails it. Sludge and possibly stuck rings will make one smoke. The cure for that is usually oil changes and driving it like a a car for a few hundred miles. lF you don't see any improvement after that,THEN consider a rebuild or engine swap.

 

BTW,make damn sure you use 30 wt NON-DETERGENT oil. Part of your problem MIGHT be someone changed the oil and used modern detergent oil. IF that has happened,pull the oil pan NOW and clean all the sludge out of the bottom end,put it back on with new gaskets,and fill it with 30 wt non-detergent oil and make frequent oil changes until it stops smoking. Might take two or three changes to get all the sludge out of the system.

 

Replace the rear and front oil seals while you have the oil pan off.

 

"Do I do the maintenance and drive it until something breaks?"

 

Yes. If it ain't broke,don't try to fix it.

 

No need to spend big bucks on repairs you might not need.

Edited March 15, 2021 by knuckleharley

[Ranger]

Love the 1936 Plymouth. I have a 36 business coupe. Bought it in 1964. I drove the heck out of it in high school just as it was. The original owner had replaced the engine with a 1941, from the serial number. I drove it winter and summer. Girls always wanted a ride. I could beat 6 cyl. Chevys in the 1/4 mile and cruise at 50 mph all day. It would cut great donuts in the snow. Fast forward about 35 years......I still have it and cruise around town. The rear gear is 4.11 factory and 50 mph is about as far as I want to wind it up. I don’t take it out on the 65mph highway into Bend. The 36 is a one year for some parts. No one makes a disc brake conversion for it. No, not even Rusty Hope. 

The rear brake cylinders are one year. I finally found someone making  replacements on EBay. Also the front motor mount was hard to find. Finally, recently found that on EBay from Vintage Mopar. The U-joints are ball and trunion which are difficult to replace and spendy. I’m considering converting to a T-5 five speed, and a newer rear. This will require a new driveshaft with modern U-joints and a new bell housing. What you have is good and dependable. Just depends on keeping it original or improving highway drive ability. 

Have fun!

[knuckleharley]

9 minutes ago, Ranger said:

Love the 1936 Plymouth. I have a 36 business coupe. Bought it in 1964. I drove the heck out of it in high school just as it was. The original owner had replaced the engine with a 1941, from the serial number. I drove it winter and summer. Girls always wanted a ride. I could beat 6 cyl. Chevys in the 1/4 mile and cruise at 50 mph all day. It would cut great donuts in the snow. Fast forward about 35 years......I still have it and cruise around town. The rear gear is 4.11 factory and 50 mph is about as far as I want to wind it up. I don’t take it out on the 65mph highway into Bend. The 36 is a one year for some parts. No one makes a disc brake conversion for it. No, not even Rusty Hope. 

The rear brake cylinders are one year. I finally found someone making  replacements on EBay. Also the front motor mount was hard to find. Finally, recently found that on EBay from Vintage Mopar. The U-joints are ball and trunion which are difficult to replace and spendy. I’m considering converting to a T-5 five speed, and a newer rear. This will require a new driveshaft with modern U-joints and a new bell housing. What you have is good and dependable. Just depends on keeping it original or improving highway drive ability. 

Have

IF possible,please try to keep the original parts you pull off so some future owner can use them.

 

Or maybe just put them up for sale here. Pretty much everything can be rebuilt if you have the core and the desire.

[Ranger]

Thanks knuckelharley. I’ve kept everything that I’ve ever replaced. Good and bad. I still have it. Except the rubber. Not much left to save there. 

[ratfinkxxx]

Thanks for all the responses. Guess I'll just ease into it and see how it goes. Service the various systems and get comfortable with the car. I really appreciate getting some clarity on what path to follow.

[allbizz49]

Do the work yourself, that's 75% of the fun. Me personally, I will never buy a done car. I don't want someone elses car and that includes who's working on it. The newset thing I drive is from 59. They keep you tinkering but like I said, that's most of the fun. Have fun and good luck.