Charging Issues

[Brian Coleman]

  I am having a heck of a time figuring what is wrong.  When I purchased this 47 ply.  It was batteryed up pos. pos.  I know that was wrong so I reversed it back to positive ground.  Now, symptons are.  Without key on!!!!!!!!! I turn on lights, amp gauge shows charge, turn radio on, shows charge, turn heater fan on,,, shows charge.  Any of these things I have done should have showed a discharge.  Now with key on, same thing.  With it running all the same things.  So I tryed another battery,,,,, same thing.  I tried reversing it back to what it was when I got it..   Same thing.  I polarized the generator, plus the new voltage regulator.  

 

Brian

[Dan Hiebert]

The ammeter may be wired backwards. 

[Sam Buchanan]

Disconnect the battery, reverse the wires on the ammeter, and reconnect the battery. That should return the ammeter back to normal operation.

 

And...........welcome to the forum! Lots of knowledgeable folks here, keep asking questions, you'll get the old car sorted out.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Sam Buchanan

[50mech]

Sounds like one side of the ammeter has been wired to ground, rather than the starter solenoid hot (-) terminal.

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by 50mech

[Brian Coleman]

Good Moring Dan

 

Looked at ammeter, and looks to never have been messed with.  This is the strangest thing I have ever come across.  The gauge will never cross over to discharge until I reverse the battery cables and then it will show discharge.  I can turn key on and it bumps to the positve, I can pull lights on and it goes more positive, I can turn on radio and it goes yet more positive.  I can start engine and it does same thing.

 

Thanks

[50mech]

Check the wire that goes on the starter solenoid from the ammeter , may have to trace it all the way there. I'd bet it's wired to ground (+) somewhere. If it's attached to the wrong side of the solenoid it may give exactly your symptoms..

Edited March 4, 2020 by 50mech

[Pete]

You may need to polarize the generator, too.

 

[Brian Coleman]

Hi Pete  Thanks for the response,,,,,,,,,,,,,,  I polarized the generator last night, and also the new voltage regulator.  I am hearing through the grapevine that chrysler products had there issues with their ammeter gauges also???????

 

Brian

[Plymouthy Adams]

grapevine will tangle you up.......

[Dan Hiebert]

Brian, first off, welcome to the Forum.  My first response was perhaps overly simplistic, the wires reversed on the back of the ammeter can be one cause for it reading in reverse.  The underlying problem is that the current flow through the ammeter is reversed.  If a previous owner had changed the battery hook up from positive ground to negative, either intentionally or unintentionally, that PO would have gotten reverse readings on the ammeter, too, and probably did something to correct (in their mind) the reading.  Reversing the wires on the back of the gauge is one of two ways to do that, the other (easier, if one isn't a contortionist) being to change that red lead from the ammeter from negative side of the starter solenoid to a ground like 50mech sez, either a straight up ground, or simply to the positive side of the solenoid.  Either way, the ammeter should be wired to the negative side of the starter solenoid - I would check that first.  Red lead from neg. pole on ammeter (if the red is not on the neg. pole, the wires are reversed on the ammeter) to negative pole on solenoid.  The other two leads from the ammeter are brown, and go to the light switch and ign. lock.  The only problems I've ever learned about with Chrysler ammeters center around this same issue.  

[Brian Coleman]

OK      I will be done with work in a couple hours, and I will head home and do some more investigating per your instructions.  Just hoping for a better night tonight than last night.  Thought I was losing my gourd.  I really appreciate the help.  I just love driving this ol girl.  Runs nice drives nice shifts nice.  Mopar had it going on in the day.

 

Talk tomorrow

Thanks again

Brian

[Plymouthy Adams]

the only ammeters from Chrysler that truly may fit the above "problematic" scenario is the later 70-80 era as these are NOT true ammeters but only sample the load and indicate direction of current with no true display of current anywhere near accurate current draw/charge.....these (older)  meters are bit more accurate but even they are not exact....the meter is only a means to monitor your charging system...it is in no manner a device for absolute values...

Edited March 4, 2020 by Plymouthy Adams

[Tooljunkie]

Not that this is the case, but what are the chances everything was right except for the battery?

i have heard if batteries being discharged and recharged reverse polarity. A slim possibility, not sure how you would check it.

diode on a test light, maybe?

[50mech]

While it does have a very similar effect and could easily have been done for the reason Dan stated. I'll add a little more to that.

 

There is one key difference in swapping leads on the back of the meter vs on the solenoid or over to a ground and it's what makes me suspect this is your case.

 

The ammeter is wired as sort of a comparator. More current going to the battery reads a charge, more to accessories reads a discharge.

 

Swap wires on the meter you just get opposite readings.

 

If you swap them on the solenoid you are now actually comparing current to the accessories vs current drawn away via the starter motor rather than the battery......which basically will always draw more. That shows up as charging since that side should be reading current to the battery.

 

As a side effect if it's swapped on the solenoid and you turn on enough accessories your starter motor may actually begin turning. If it's just grounded somewhere you won't have that. Either of these will be incapable of reading as discharge since current drawn to a ground or the starter will always be higher than the accessories feeding from that point.

Except with the battery cables swapped and nothing on. You would then be reading current backfed through the starter vs zero draw. Since something is more than nothing we see discharge.

 

Anyway the first easy check would be that out of the three terminals on the solenoid, only the one with the battery cable attached should have more than one wire. 

[Brian Coleman]

This is my 47.   picture of solenoid and how it was wired

[50mech]

I'm assuming the red battery cable is hooked to the neg batt terminal as it should be.

Can't tell in the pics, are those other wires crimped into the cable end?

If so I'd check for continuity of those wires to the cable end.

 

The large terminal on bottom, does it have any wires other than the one going to the starter?

[Brian Coleman]

Yes red battery cable is on neg of battery.  No only single wire on each post of solenoid.

 

Good Morning

[Brian Coleman]

  Single cable leaving the solenoid to starter

[50mech]

On the red cable end, those smaller wires aren't crimped into it?

Are they just running behind it?

They should be crimped in, def check if they are making a good connection there.

Edited March 5, 2020 by 50mech

[Brian Coleman]

I didn't notice it before but it looks to me,  from my pic on my phone, there may be a smaller wire, underneath the big red cable.  I am at work and not by the car so I am going by my pic I posted off my phone.

[50mech]

As far as I can tell, it looks to be wired correctly. The thicker red wire of the three smaller that appear to be crimped in to your battery lead is the ammeter wire, the other is hooked to your VR.

 

The crimp does look a little suspect but so do the several bare spots in that red wire.

 

At this point id probably use some lead extensions and a helping hand to check continuity on the battery cable back to the ammeter and also to body ground.

Then resistance to ground on the ammeter lead that goes on the VR

Done while those wires are disconnected from the solenoid and from the VR.

[Brian Coleman]

Got it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Thank You much

 

What you think of my 37 Royal, deer hunting car?????

[50mech]

Haha awesome! Looks like its for beer hunting too

Edited March 5, 2020 by 50mech

[Brian Coleman]

  Up here deer hunting is beer hunting,,,,,,,,,,,,, kinda a hand in hand thing

[Dan Hiebert]

On ‎3‎/‎5‎/‎2020 at 12:37 PM, Brian Coleman said:

  Up here deer hunting is beer hunting,,,,,,,,,,,,, kinda a hand in hand thing

Ditto Maine, 'cept we add "Allen's Coffee Flavored Brandy" to the mix (official State liquor of Maine, just why is beyond me).  I like that '37 Royal.  The photo kinda reminds me of those old photos you see of grandpa's hunting expeditions, the family car with Bambi and/or his cousins splayed over those big ol' fenders...