6volt/12volt ring gears

[Stewart Woollard]

My "understanding" is that the 6 volt and 12 volt ring gears are different ,as the drive gear on the starter is this different. Is this correct?

I have a 1948 218 truck engine I'm putting in a hot rod. It has a 6 volt starter. I'm going to use a mini HEI distributor from Langdons, so I need 12 volts. Whats the best way to go about this. Is it feasible to change the field coils in the starter or is it better to just get a 12volt starter and change my ring gear? What year was the changeover to 12 volts?

I know, so many questions grasshopper :<).

Thanks,

Stewart.

[Plymouthy Adams]

the stock 6 volt if  you do not just grind and grind while starting will last for a long long time on 12 volt and will in fast spin a bit faster often promoting quicker starts but of course state of tune goes a long way in this equation.  The ring gears have different tooth counts and the starter drives I think still have the same count but different profile...not sure about the tooth count on the starter drive.  If  you go 12 volt starter, retain you 6 volt Bendix...

[Los_Control]

3 minutes ago, Stewart Woollard said:

My "understanding" is that the 6 volt and 12 volt ring gears are different

Only thing different I am aware of, the 6 volt has heavier wiring because 6 volt uses more amps.

Many have switched to 12 volts and run the stock 6 volt starter on 12 volts for years.

Until it fails

 

Suggesting a physical difference like the ring gear is just wrong.

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

11 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

Only thing different I am aware of, the 6 volt has heavier wiring because 6 volt uses more amps.

Many have switched to 12 volts and run the stock 6 volt starter on 12 volts for years.

Until it fails

 

Suggesting a physical difference like the ring gear is just wrong.

 

 

the thing that is wrong is your guessing….when you do the mix-match and lock a starter to the ring gear....you will understand...

[Los_Control]

Just never heard of anyone switching the ring gear on the flywheel because switching from 6 volt to 12 volt.

 

Now if you do switch the starter, of course you will need to be sure it is physically the same as what you are replacing.

 

But switching to 12 volt is no reason to replace the existing starter.

[maok]

28 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

Only thing different I am aware of, the 6 volt has heavier wiring because 6 volt uses more amps.

Many have switched to 12 volts and run the stock 6 volt starter on 12 volts for years.

Until it fails

 

Suggesting a physical difference like the ring gear is just wrong.

 

 

The same starter will use the same amount of amps on 6 volts or 12 volts on the same engine. I am afraid this is a myth.

[greg g]

There are two different tooth counts, forget when the change over happened.  The six volt starter will be fine on 12 volt.  You might want to switch to a 12 volt starter solenoid as the six volt has a tendency to slam the pinion gear in fast and hard when energized with 12 v.

[Young Ed]

35 minutes ago, greg g said:

There are two different tooth counts, forget when the change over happened.  The six volt starter will be fine on 12 volt.  You might want to switch to a 12 volt starter solenoid as the six volt has a tendency to slam the pinion gear in fast and hard when energized with 12 v.

From what I've heard 57 meaning 56 is the one year only starter that is 12v but compatible with the old ring gears. Hope it's true because I have a 56 starter stashed. 

[greg g]

My car still has the six volt starter on the 56 flywheel, the starter from the 56 engine I believe is in hotrod tractor's former Coatney vehicle on the De Soto engine. Not sure which flywheel was used in that application.

[Stewart Woollard]

16 hours ago, Los_Control said:

Only thing different I am aware of, the 6 volt has heavier wiring because 6 volt uses more amps.

Many have switched to 12 volts and run the stock 6 volt starter on 12 volts for years.

Until it fails

 

Suggesting a physical difference like the ring gear is just wrong.

 

I meant that if I switched to factory a 12 volt starter, I would need to switch to the factory 12 volt starter ring gear. Didn't realise that was just wrong!

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

14 hours ago, Young Ed said:

From what I've heard 57 meaning 56 is the one year only starter that is 12v but compatible with the old ring gears. Hope it's true because I have a 56 starter stashed. 

 

This is what I TRIED to convey with first post.....the 12 volt starter if you found one and was to install it would need to match the starter ring..so if you kept the 6v starter ring, you will need the 6 volt Bendix in your 12 volt starter motor.....

 

typically folks swapping late motors into the early cars would find out ONLY when the starter locked onto the starter ring there was a difference...by eyeball and quick check, count of Bendix teeth one would ASSUME there were indeed the same...then whirl-clank, you pulling it apart.

[Los_Control]

7 minutes ago, Stewart Woollard said:

I meant that if I switched to factory a 12 volt starter, I would need to switch to the factory 12 volt starter ring gear.

They do have to match, As PA said, you do not want then mesh and bind up.

 

My point is, the 6 volt starter you have will work with the 12 volt system. Just use it then deal with it when it wears out.

If you compare the headlight wires from a 6 volt car and a 12 volt car, the 6 volt wiring will be a heavier gauge.

A 6 volt system requires heavy 1 ot or 00 battery cables, while a 12 volt has much smaller battery cables.

The 6 volt starter is the same, it will be built heavier then the 12 volt starter. It will work with 12 volts.

 

Is suggested that you not crank the 6 volt starter for extended periods of time under 12 volt, that is just common sense for any starter.

People have run the same 6 volt starter for years on 12 volt.

When it goes out, then take it to a starter shop and have it rebuilt, or buy a different starter, just make sure it is correct for your application.

[Plymouthy Adams]

16 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

They do have to match, As PA said, you do not want then mesh and bind up.

 

My point is, the 6 volt starter you have will work with the 12 volt system. Just use it then deal with it when it wears out.

If you compare the headlight wires from a 6 volt car and a 12 volt car, the 6 volt wiring will be a heavier gauge.

A 6 volt system requires heavy 1 ot or 00 battery cables, while a 12 volt has much smaller battery cables.

The 6 volt starter is the same, it will be built heavier then the 12 volt starter. It will work with 12 volts.

 

Is suggested that you not crank the 6 volt starter for extended periods of time under 12 volt, that is just common sense for any starter.

People have run the same 6 volt starter for years on 12 volt.

When it goes out, then take it to a starter shop and have it rebuilt, or buy a different starter, just make sure it is correct for your application.

 

Highlighted in red is as was in my post #2, first reply,  I pointed out his choices 

[Los_Control]

3 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

I pointed out his choices 

Great minds think alike 

 

17 hours ago, Los_Control said:

Many have switched to 12 volts and run the stock 6 volt starter on 12 volts for years.

Until it fails

 

I think what happens is a mindset that if I switch to 12 volts, I must switch all electrical with it.

Then it gets easy to be side tracked.