1951 B3F Build Thread

[ggdad1951]

19 hours ago, Lingle said:

@ggdad1951I would be curious what your Dodge frame is running for rear spacer on your frame swap?  Since I kept the original frame, and stock front leaf pack count(to compensate for the 1400lb engine weight), makes for a tall truck!

 

I can look later today, but it's just a stock RAM 3500 frame and axels.  No extra parts added.

[Lingle]

3 hours ago, ggdad1951 said:

 

I can look later today, but it's just a stock RAM 3500 frame and axels.  No extra parts added.

Understood, I was curious as to what the factory RAM 3500 block height was, if any.  

[JBNeal]

When I corrected the suspension problem on The Blue Bomber, I had to source the correct spacers for its Dana 80 axle...could find nothing used, so I upgraded to a lift block kit from SD Spring that was 3/4" higher than factory but worked.  By contrast, the QuadCab uses a 1" spacer block on its Dana 70 rear axle.  In both instances, rear axle spacers are only added to level the body, with 4x4 solid axle suspensions needing more clearance than 2wd IFS for Cummins applications; gas engine suspensions were set up different, which was part of the problem I found when I bought The Blue Bomber from a used car dealer in Irving.  Newer model Dodge Rams with the Cummins have a different frame and suspension package, so they use a different spacer setup.

[ggdad1951]

Looks to be about 5" tall.

[Lingle]

Got the rear axle re-oriented, and driveshaft angles set.  The center bearing and the rear axle orientation are just mocked in place, with the center bearing support just tacked in place.  Once driveshafts come back from being reworked, I would quadruple check angles again to make sure everything is all kosher.  right now working angles are(from transmission rearward): 1.5°, 3° and 1°.  based on everything I have read, need to keep angles <3° for long term life and less risk of vibration.  Also, the last driveshaft to the axle also is not completely linear, so in addition to the angles up/down there is some slight side to side since the engine/trans couldnt be completely offset to the passenger side to mirror the rear axle.

 

Also installed rear sway bars(to see if they will fit) and some bolt on(would be final welded) shock mounts to see if I can fit all that plus some traction bars all on the narrow 34" wide frame.  Looks like it will fit, but will be busy.  Driveshafts will go out end of the month so now I will see about shock orientation and length to see what is best.  Shocks will have one forward and one point rearward, most likely benchmark my F250 since drivetrain is very similar.  Cant exactly go vertical because the length would be somewhat short, and I have read to keep fore/aft angles <10° to keep shock functionality so we will see how things go.  This truck didn't have shocks from the factory but for ride quality I am adding in some.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by Lingle

[Lingle]

Not much progress this weekend due to other commitments but got the turbo downpipe done, which for my first time working exhaust I only had to rework it 3 times!  Also figured out some shocks that I think will work, the stock Ford and the factory Dodge ones won't work as I need a shorter shock but found one that I'll try for the rear.

 

FYI I'll rotate the photos on Monday since I don't know how to rotate them via the phone...?

 

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Lingle
rotated photos

[Lingle]

Got my modified driveshafts back from the shop, was able to rework a set of Dodge driveshafts(since transmission and transfer case are stock Dodge parts) and have new ends installed to mate to the Ford/Dana axles.  Luckily they needed to be shortened, so that was helpful(and saved quite a bit of money).  I figured it would be spendy but $500 to shorten 2 shafts, 1 new weld yoke and 1 spline, plus labor adds up.  $200 in parts, $300 in labor(and only 2 hrs of work!), but they turned out great.

 

Also got a great start on my fuel tank mount.  I made it bolt on as sometimes its nice to remove things if need be or I dont like it.  Do I really need a 50 gallon fuel tank?  No.  Did I have the tank already from when I purchased the engine?  Yes.  So it'll save me some green reusing it.  It just barely fits width wise with a 7'(84") wide flatbed that will eventually go on the truck.  

 

Front driveshaft looking rearward

 

Rear carrier bearing(sorry for the rotated photo)

 

2nd rear driveshaft looking rearward(again, apologize for rotated photo)

 

start of fuel tank mount for the 50 gallon tank, the 2x3 and 2x2 tubing on the frame is to mock up where the bed will eventually be.

 

another look at the fuel tank mount.  At one point the frame cracked, as Ive read this is very common, so some previous owner put on a GIANT section of C channel over the cracked area.  its 3/8" thick and roughly 20" long.  unfortunately its taller than the frame so on the bottom they slid in 1 or 2 pieces of flat bar to fill the gap.  I will just clean up best I can, but the plates behind the rear fuel tank bracket are there to offset the one mount so the tank will not sit crooked.  Ill also put some 3/8" plate between the rear vertical mount and the frame repair so the tank sits flush

Edited April 6, 2021 by Lingle
added photos and comments

[Dave72dt]

It appears to have a similar section of C channel  on the other frame rail as well.  That makes me think it's possible the frame may have been shortened, something commonly done to adjust the axle placement for a particular bed application.

[Lingle]

19 minutes ago, Dave72dt said:

It appears to have a similar section of C channel  on the other frame rail as well.  That makes me think it's possible the frame may have been shortened, something commonly done to adjust the axle placement for a particular bed application.

 

Could very well be, I will take some other photos if interested.  Some previous owner did physically move the rear axle rearward about 10" for some reason, but I moved it back to the stock 152" wheelbase the VIN said it was.  It is clear on both side there are cracks near the rear of the cab on both sides, at one point the vehicle(decades ago) had a rather large grain box on it.  Its fun trying to be detective and think about all the history in one of these vehicles and the slew of applications one could have used these trucks for.

[Lingle]

Happy days!  got my new radiator in today from DCM Classics.  Seems to me my truck doesnt align with the parts catalog.  I was concerned the radiator wouldnt fit.  for reference here is the excerpt from the parts catalog on the Pilothouse Knowledge site:

 

 

and here is a photo pre disassembly(sorry for the rotated photo)

 

 

as seen, they are not the same for a B3F, so I am hoping that I can rotate the radiator support 180° and see if the sheetmetal will still fit, othewise may need to modify the brand new, $600 radiator!

 

Anyone else seen this radiator setup on a 1+ ton truck?

[dcotant]

I think that is why they have the welded nuts on both sides of the harp, so you can adjust for different frames or engine block lengths, but yeah you should be able to rotate that harp 180 degrees, just have to wonder if that gives you the clearance you need.

[Brent B3B]

3 hours ago, Lingle said:

Anyone else seen this radiator setup on a 1+ ton truck?

All three of my medium duty trucks (GA, HH) have the same setup you took off. 

From what I can tell, the Radiator for the 25” motors are thicker than the ones for the 23”

 

My 1/2- 1ton trucks, have what the illustration shows and it sounds like what DCM sold you

[Lingle]

Thanks @Brent B3Bfor checking your other trucks, I appreciate it. 

 

I will say that despite the cost point, the DCM custom radiator was more cost effective than US Radiator.  I had unique inlets and outlet placement to better fit my project.  all the as-fit radiators are of the same design for the 1/2-1 ton versions, so I speculate somehow Ill make it work    

 

 

[wallytoo]

5 hours ago, Brent B3B said:

All three of my medium duty trucks (GA, HH) have the same setup you took off. 

From what I can tell, the Radiator for the 25” motors are thicker than the ones for the 23”

 

My 1/2- 1ton trucks, have what the illustration shows and it sounds like what DCM sold you

 

my 1-fa-152 has the same radiator as yours do, and that the OP took out of his F.

[Lingle]

oh wow its been quite some time since I updated here.  Unfortunately life got in the way and very little progress been had.  I made a trip up north to visit another forum member, and along the way I was able to procure a truckmaster Model 65 from someone on the social network some of us belong to.  since I was waiting on some parts, I decided to disassemble it.  much to my surprise the motor still works(I used a 12V battery, which I know is bad, but only energized for <1 second).  sadly there is a hole(it appears someone drilled it) near one of the tube on the header of the core, but no leaks otherwise.  I may have scored a good deal.  Now to find a radiator shop to patch the hole(its ~1/4" and my brazing skills are 0).  

 

yet again lovely rotated photos, to best suit my needs, I make the post, then use my phone to add the photos however it always seems like they rotate even though the phone has them oriented correctly.

 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Lingle
Added photos

[Lingle]

Also, I have got rear shock mounts finalized, using all 1993 F350 mounts upper and lower, along with shocks from the same truck.  Fronts I am doing the same, all F350 components.  will take photos once I get the front shocks in, but it will be a vast improvement over no shocks at all.  It still surprises me that on the 1.5 ton it never had shocks from the factory, however with the stiff suspension and limited top speed, maybe that was the case.  I will need to dig out the Dunn book to see what is there regarding any information on shocks. 

[Dodgeb4ya]

It's not a common option to find shocks on the medium duty trucks. 1-1/2 to 2-1/2 ton trucks.

I have seen front shocks only installed..never rear shocks except on busses which were required both front and rear.

[wallytoo]

10 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

It's not a common option to find shocks on the medium duty trucks. 1-1/2 to 2-1/2 ton trucks.

I have seen front shocks only installed..never rear shocks except on busses which were required both front and rear.

 

for sure.  my 1.5-ton "F" clearly never has had shocks, and no provision for mounting shocks.

[Lingle]

Got the front shocks mounted this evening.  Need to make some adjustments to clear the turbo to the passenger shock mount but they are 95% there.  All stock 1993 F350 front shock items, shocks, upper and lower shock mounts.  Lowers are used as no one makes new, but uppers are made by Dorman and needed some adjustments.  I'll document that in my next post since I need to modify the passenger.  Last front suspension/steering to do after the shocks is to finish the drag link.  

 

Passenger side with inner fender cut out, need more clearance between mount and turbo

 

 

Pass lower mount 

 

 

Passenger upper shock mount 

 

Drivers mount, inner fender needs adjustment 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Lingle
Added better photos not rotated

[Lingle]

Rear suspension is almost complete, final welding needed on the tabs but will wait until I disassemble for frame painting to do that.  Traction bars are 1.5" DOM 0.25" wall.  Rear shocks are stock Ford with factory Ford upper and lower mounts.  

[Lingle]

wanted to send a quick update, I haven't been working much on the project, had COVID back in October and spent a few weeks in the hospital then at home on oxygen until thanksgiving so work has halted.  Really started up again the week of Christmas and been trying to catch up when the wife allows me to.

 

no photos at this time but Ill try to upload some yet this week.  I got the rear axle fully welded up(spring perches, shock mounts) and reinstalled.  Front axle was out for a panhard bar install only to find out I need new material and a pipe bender to make the panhard bar work.  purchased a underbody box(like used on trailer) to make into a battery box so it mirrors the fuel tank roughly in size to look similar to saddle tanks.

 

Vintage air system is partially here so my focus is now on building a bracket to mount the AC compressor to my engine followed when I get the inside unit placement of that.

 

Here is to a new year and continued awesomeness that this site is.

[Lingle]

Got some photos taken.  Almost done with the ac compressor mount.  Had to make a new power steering bracket due to the double v pulley offset.  Had a oops and dropped the ps pump and bent the pulley so new one is coming tomorrow.

 

 

Lower plate is the start of the ps pump bracket 

Edited January 18, 2022 by Lingle

[Lingle]

Got the battery box installed.  Using a under belly box and will build a custom dual battery tray to hold the 2 group 31 batteries.  Remote jump start terminals and battery disconnect on the outside of the box.

 

Finish the ps pump then move onto the battery cable and charging wiring.

 

[Lingle]

Got some work done while waiting on belts to finish the ps pump bracket.

 

Mounted the Vintage Air condenser to the radiator support so I could remove the radiator independent of the radiator.  Also mounted the ps cooler since I'm running hydroboost I need a cooler.

 

 

Also found a perfect electric fan.  If you have the DCM aluminum radiator and need a fan, a 2001 PT Cruiser fan fits this perfect if you remove one of the mounting tabs.  I'll have to make some mounts on the radiator to bolt it on but shroud size is about perfect.

 

[Lingle]

finished up my PS pump mounting bracket and layout of the AC compressor and power steering pump.  Ran out of weld gas on Sunday so didnt finish welding the AC compressor bracket but will do so this week.  Finished up the power steering cooler routing, itll be tight with the AC condenser line routing but should be good with some routing clamps.  Waiting on some radiator hose material to come in then I can finish up hooking up the radiator.  Next up will be getting the PT Cruiser fan mocked up and mounts built then finish up the battery box.  One step closer to test firing!

 

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by Lingle
Added photos from phone