P22/23---P24/25 wheelbase increase , where at ?

[Rustytoolss]

I was looking at some specs, and noticed that the P22/23 models had a wheelbase of 111" (1951&1952). And the P24/25 models had a wheelbase of 114"(1953&1954).  I may be looking for a 2 door wagon model. Just wondering if anyone knows where the extra 3" was added to in the body ?  

 Also in 52 the rear quarters had bolt on rear fenders/ but in 53 the sides were one piece....did the bodies get wider/or not ? ( I doubt it, just asking).

 

Edited October 18, 2019 by Rustytoolss

[Plymouthy Adams]

the P22 was the concord class and not the full size cars.  Concord, business coupe and the station wagon were the models that floated on the 111 frame.  The full size was the P23 and its frame was 118 1/2

[Rustytoolss]

My interest is in the 2 door wagon models 1951-1954. Did all of the 2 door wagons 51-54 have the same wheelbase (111"), or was there a wheelbase change in 1953 (114") ?  If the wheelbase did change to 114", where in the body was the increase added ??

I got my specs from American Catalog of Standards , might be wrong

Edited October 18, 2019 by Rustytoolss

[Plymouthy Adams]

53 54 was 114 across the line up and some of the things you already mentioned was big changes, integral rear fenders, one piece windshield, lower hood line and even the 53 and 54 while having basically the same body...the trim was vastly different.  54 introduces the Civil Defense station indicators on the dial...as did the automatic tranny become a first for the 54 Plymouth mid year 1954 model.  Power steering and power brakes were now more common in 54.  Many of these mid year 54 items did not make it into the service manuals as they were not planned originally for the model year but were running changes.  Often one had to refer to the 55 manual for some of the data of the later 54 would need for service.  

[Rustytoolss]

new to this stuff...what are civil defence station indicators / sorry for not knowing this stuff.

[Plymouthy Adams]

the little triangle in the circle one on each end of the AM band....

 

[Rustytoolss]

would have never guessed that...I'm uninformed (62 I might not be able to say to young) 

[T120]

 

?

 

Edited October 19, 2019 by T120
Deleted...Off topic.

[DonaldSmith]

In the event of a national emergency (like incoming atomic bombers or missles) tune to 640 or 1240 on your radio dial. 

Civil Defense was the program to cope with such emergencies, an outgrowth of World War II programs. 

Duck and cover.  

[Rustytoolss]

After some research I found out that the overall body length did not change (much about 1") from 1952 to 1954, but the wheelbase changed from 111" in 1952--to 114" in 1953/54. I thought that the body length also got longer (more interior room). with the wheelbase increase..I guess my thoughts were incorrect.

Edited October 19, 2019 by Rustytoolss

[Plymouthy Adams]

your thread title states P22/23 and you continue to compare the two different chassis of that year to that of the following model P24/P25

 

P22  = short wheelbase chassis 111 and the overall length was 188 1/8 including bumper and guards

P23  = long wheelbase chassis 118 1/2  with overall length of 193 7/8                  5 3/4 inches longer

 

the P24/P25 with the 114 chassis was overall length of P24 at 189 1/8 (this is the inch you refer) and the P25 at 193 1/2   the  4 3/8 difference you neglected to state

 

the reason for the difference in the P25 was the increase in competitions offering a larger foot print of a vehicle to the public....the 54 model got their added length in trim modifications so to be a bit more eye appealing compared to the competition.  The 54 got a rave of other trim bling and was reported to  have borrowed slated colors from the upcoming 55 line up to further enhance their eye appeal nd push sales upwards.  Comparing the 51/52 to the 53/54 is apples and oranges in overall appearance...with the exception of those vehicles that were equipped with hy-drive and the powerflite in mid 54...they both were same old chassis hat tricks beneath carried forward with the 54 getting few more appointments as technology advanced and become more affordable to build...ie your power brakes and power steering.  

 

Basically the choice one has to make is what body style he liked the best and be comfortable with the chassis it was put on.  As for the specific models for those two aforementioned series, one has to only chose what body style better reflects their liking and go from there....many styling changes between the two models.  I know my 114 in wheelbase drives very nicely compared to the other model....many reflect as the sit on same components as carried forward that the very distance between the wheel patches makes all the difference.  I think lower hood and one piece glass has some influence as does the rear non bulging fenders.  The 54 I have is very quiet car on the road and my 52 and earlier cars as I recall were not as such.

[Rustytoolss]

Sorry about the model classes (P22,P23,P24P25 etc) new to these cars, getting info from Standard Catalog of Automobiles . I may be reading it wrong as far as model /series numbers. I do like the idea of the 114" WB, lower hood ,one piece windshield...but do like the bulging rear fenders.....if only there was a way to combine both...that's what I want. 

  In my evil plan that's what I want to create, as a 2 door Tin Woodie, with the above features. I'm sure the guys with stock Plymouths would be offended...but custom cars come from someone's visions and evil ideas.

Edited October 21, 2019 by Rustytoolss

[Plymouthy Adams]

not without a lot of work and possible not look quite like what you visualized in your mind...the numbers I quoted are from the official Plymouth service manual.  

 

IF your are looking at a wagon body...either model will look good and truly no need to blend the two.  But, as the old song says  "you better go home son and make up your mind"

[Los_Control]

12 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

you better go home son and make up your mind"

If only that red head would leave me alone 

 

[JerseyHarold]

21 minutes ago, Rustytoolss said:

 

  In my evil plan that's what I want to create, as a 2 door Tin Woodie, with the above features. I'm sure the guys with stock Plymouths would be offended...but custom cars come from someone's visions and evil ideas.

You mean like this?.....

[Plymouthy Adams]

I  have seen a couple of these on old Plymouth and Dodge wagons....one was extremely well done and had detailed wood plugs to hide the supposedly screw heads....that vehicle was a work of art.  Only thing that would be offensive would be a lame-o brand x transplant.....step one to the ultimate puke wagon...

[Rustytoolss]

14 hours ago, Los_Control said:

If only that red head would leave me alone 

 

 she's  been stuck in my head for about 17 years now, and I don't think she's going to leave me alone.

 

[Rustytoolss]

I've seen photos of the stock built Plymouth 2 door woodies before (thanks for sharing that). But my vison comes from the custom wagons that were built by Jim Noteboom (google him) . He built a 47/78 ford phantom Woodie, and also a 53 Buick phantom Woodie. Both were 2 doors. And both only had the wood treatment along the window line and on the tail gate. Ever since seeing those wagons, the idea has never left my mind.

[Plymouthy Adams]

two reasons I would not google that guy....Ford.....Buick.....

[Rustytoolss]

2 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

two reasons I would not google that guy....Ford.....Buick.....

Just look him up. The cars a beautiful , He just as well could have use mopars. Hate to break it to you, but there are other car makes in the world (we just know that mopars  are the best)

[Young Ed]

That 51-52 plymouth isn't a stock built car. Plymouth discontinued woodies in 50. 

This one is a 1950 but also not a stock woodie. 

 

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

surprised to see that the grille insert  is not bright and shiney as it should be...hope this was just a temp condition while working one to replace this....just too much work went into this to cut it short on the grille.....

[Plymouthy Adams]

53 minutes ago, Rustytoolss said:

Just look him up. The cars a beautiful , He just as well could have use mopars. Hate to break it to you, but there are other car makes in the world (we just know that mopars  are the best)

for sure but they are not high in look see box....to be quite honest with you there are often over 250+ finished cars in the car corral at the event I attend twice a year and I make a bee line through the middle of them to see the project cars aligned against the back fence on trailers.  Finished cars are well, finished. I like the ones that are sitting basically stark and raw and stir your imaginative juices....I may stop and look at a Mopar....but don't hold your breath as I may just zing right by them also.  Bet you would fall over if I told you Harley is not a real motorcycle.....lol...they are but not one that I care to own.

[Young Ed]

5 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

surprised to see that the grille insert  is not bright and shiney as it should be...hope this was just a temp condition while working one to replace this....just too much work went into this to cut it short on the grille.....

since everything else was put back to shiny I'm thinking it was temporary also

[Rustytoolss]

51 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

for sure but they are not high in look see box....to be quite honest with you there are often over 250+ finished cars in the car corral at the event I attend twice a year and I make a bee line through the middle of them to see the project cars aligned against the back fence on trailers.  Finished cars are well, finished. I like the ones that are sitting basically stark and raw and stir your imaginative juices....I may stop and look at a Mopar....but don't hold your breath as I may just zing right by them also.  Bet you would fall over if I told you Harley is not a real motorcycle.....lol...they are but not one that I care to own.

One of the coolest Harleys I ever saw had an industrial Briggs and Stratton ..I loved it, Like you said stir your imaginative juices. That's what I like