51 B3B build thread - after all these years

[bkahler]

No good deed goes unpunished.  I thought the glove box would fit through the opening, nope, it has to be fitted from the backside.  So, I had to pull the heater so I could get the glove box set in place.  Before I did that however, I installed the defroster hoses.  I also installed the glove box door.  Still need the handle but the door is in place.  After all that I put the heater back in place

 

 

 

 

Next I pulled the main wiring harness through the firewall and into the dash area.  The engine compartment is really starting to come together!

 

 

 

I'm sort of dreading making all of the electrical connections under the dash.  I'm not near as flexible as I used to be.  I think I'll find a whole lot of packing blankets to make a bed inside the cab so I can lay there in comfort.

 

Brad

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by bkahler

[JBNeal]

On 5/8/2021 at 4:08 PM, bkahler said:

 

I was doing some work in preparation for IWOYTD and thought I'd check out a few things on the functionality of the vent door.  I looked at the '48, '49, and '53 to see if there were any variations on the design and they all appear to be the same.  The '48 works almost flawlessly, and when I put the vent handle in the shown position, the door is completely closed...any further movement of the handle to the lock position is unnoticeable on the door.  I added the yellow reference line to show the relative position of the handle mechanism when the door is in full contact with the gasket.

 

The '49 has an imperfect door operation, as I'm guessing from the amount of West Texas grit I scooped out of the cab when I rescued it in 2001, the door would get jammed up and extra oomph was required to open/close it, causing the handle parts to flex.  With the door in the closed and locked position, I can flex the handle towards the passenger and driver sides when trying to unlock and open the door...this causes the door to partially open like your shown door, at its outside edges but not so much at the center.

 

So ya might have some tweaked parts that are causing misalignment issues, including the door itself.  I took several under dash pictures in the '48 as it has no heater and the rats ate the glovebox years ago, so access is less restricted, and it was still quite awkward to just get pictures, let alone massage tweaked metal back into conformance.  One thing I did notice that might be helpful is to grasp the vent handle where it is spot welded onto the lock mechanism while on the bench seat, you might be able to see enough movement in the door to give an idea of what way to go with the massaging, or might be able to muscle the door into conformance from that position.

[bkahler]

JB, thanks for the picture and info.  I would not be a bit surprised if my door wasn't bent at least a little bit in the corners.   Seventy years is a long time where it could take a set.  It looks mostly flat and like everyone has been saying it probably should have some angle to it from the center out.  I'll talk to a friend of mine who does body work to see if "tweaking" the cover would be doable without to much damage to the paint.  Part of the problem is how the door is made.  The flange that is welded to the cover acts like a stiffener.

 

I spent a couple minutes last night installing the instrument cluster.  I have replacement NOS gauges available but I figured I would start out using the originals and only replace them if they didn't work correctly.  I know the temp gauge works as I tested it years ago.  

 

 

I ran into a problem when I tried to screw the temperature sensor bulb into the block.  The adapter fitting on the block has been damaged and the gland nut won't screw in.  So now I'm on the hunt for an adapter fitting

 

Brad

 

[bkahler]

The radiator drain petcock was the last item in the cooling system to install and that task is now complete so the system can be filled anytime I feel like it.  

 

 

 

I also installed the temperature gauge tube retainer that mounts on the firewall.

 

 

Finally I replaced the rubber cab mounts.  Even though the originals weren't totally deteriorated I figured there would be no better time to replace it than now before the fenders are installed.  I bought the rubber parts from Vic's Dodge Garage.  They seemed to be pretty decent quality.  Only issue was the left front didn't allow for the steel tube so I need to look at that a little closer before I tighten everything for good.  

 

 

 

 

 

Brad

 

[bkahler]

I'm at the point where I need to install the cables that pass through the dash and the various switches.  I've been searching for the plastic/nylon washers that the switch and cable nuts ride on to prevent marring of the paint.

 

 

 

The nuts for the cable housings measure about 0.9" outside diameter, 0.465" inside diameter and the washer has a thickness of about 0.010".  

 

I googled to my hearts content and still haven't found anything that is suitable.  What have the rest of you used to overcome this problem?

 

Brad

 

[JBNeal]

While removing wiper switches, I saw remnants of this similar gasket and thought that I could make my own from the smooth parts of a plastic milk jug...it's cheap, more durable material than the original, but slightly thicker.

[bkahler]

58 minutes ago, JBNeal said:

While removing wiper switches, I saw remnants of this similar gasket and thought that I could make my own from the smooth parts of a plastic milk jug...it's cheap, more durable material than the original, but slightly thicker.

 

I just ordered a nylon sheet that is .010" thick.  I'll try making a punch on my lathe that will punch out .900" round washers.  I figured it was worth a try.  If it doesn't work I'll try an milk jug!

 

 

[bkahler]

Ok, I lied the other day ?

 

I said the coolant system was done and I could fill the system.  Unfortunately I forgot that the temperature gauge bulb was not installed.  Last night I managed to finish that task so the coolant system is NOW ready to fill

 

I ordered a brass adapter from Amazon and it turned out the inner bore was too small so I had to drill it out to match the size of the original bulb.  

 

The only tasks left before I can start the engine for the first time are rebuilding the starter and generator, hooking up a battery and a couple of temporary wires and fill the truck with fluids of various types.  I'm thinking sometime in June I just might be able to start the engine after waiting 21+ years since the rebuild.  Getting close.......!

 

 

[JBNeal]

that oil filter sure could use a big yeller sticker on it 

 

Are ya gonna fill the cooling system with tap water to flush out the assembly crud and act as a hose clamp leak detector?

[CO54]

In reference to your body mounts above, the Left Front on my '54 only has an upper bushing, and shorter bolt.  No steel post in the center of bushing.  My service manual indicates this too. Just a thought?

[wagoneer]

8 hours ago, bkahler said:

Ok, I lied the other day ?

 

I said the coolant system was done and I could fill the system.  Unfortunately I forgot that the temperature gauge bulb was not installed.  Last night I managed to finish that task so the coolant system is NOW ready to fill

 

I ordered a brass adapter from Amazon and it turned out the inner bore was too small so I had to drill it out to match the size of the original bulb.  

 

The only tasks left before I can start the engine for the first time are rebuilding the starter and generator, hooking up a battery and a couple of temporary wires and fill the truck with fluids of various types.  I'm thinking sometime in June I just might be able to start the engine after waiting 21+ years since the rebuild.  Getting close.......!

 

 

 

 

@bkahler Have you considered going with the waterless coolant like EVANS? Your system is perfectly dry right now, so it's perfect time to put in the good stuff that won't corrode your engine insides or your radiator. Less water the better. 

 

 

Use the engine flush as @jbneal suggested to clean out the junk and then put the waterless coolant in. It is more expensive, but with 21 years of hard work, and a beautiful restoration (that I am in the middle of myself), a few bucks on the good coolant would be worth it.

[bkahler]

6 hours ago, JBNeal said:

that oil filter sure could use a big yeller sticker on it 

Workin on it...... :)

 

6 hours ago, JBNeal said:

Are ya gonna fill the cooling system with tap water to flush out the assembly crud and act as a hose clamp leak detector?

 

I could do that although on other motors that I've rebuild I've not done so.  But since it's already late spring here it wouldn't hurt to use water on the first start.  Once started I need to run it for about 30 minutes to break in the cam and lifters.  After that it will be a while before I attempt to drive it.

 

[bkahler]

5 hours ago, CO54 said:

In reference to your body mounts above, the Left Front on my '54 only has an upper bushing, and shorter bolt.  No steel post in the center of bushing.  My service manual indicates this too. Just a thought?

My original on had a metal disc and tube like the other three corners only it didn't use the large lower rubber.  I scrounged a spare one years ago just like my original.  Attached is a picture out of my service manual showing the bushing inside the rubber disc for the left front.  

 

I think I'm going to look at what it might take to modify the new rubber bushing to work with the steel tube and disc. 

 

When I have time of course!

 

  

 

 

[bkahler]

4 hours ago, wagoneer said:

 

 

@bkahler Have you considered going with the waterless coolant like EVANS? Your system is perfectly dry right now, so it's perfect time to put in the good stuff that won't corrode your engine insides or your radiator. Less water the better. 

 

 

Use the engine flush as @jbneal suggested to clean out the junk and then put the waterless coolant in. It is more expensive, but with 21 years of hard work, and a beautiful restoration (that I am in the middle of myself), a few bucks on the good coolant would be worth it.

 

I hadn't really thought about it.  I've never really been tempted by the new coolants that are on the market for my other restorations.  I'll do some research and make a decision when I'm ready to fill the system.

 

Thanks,

 

Brad

[bkahler]

While viewing the Dodge oiling system video I realized that I probably don't have the correct fitting in the block that feeds my oil gauge.  The video talks about the fitting having a 1/32" diameter feed hole.  So I checked my fitting and sure enough, it doesn't have the small feed hole.  The fitting that I installed I bought for a different project and was a left over.  It was the right size and style so I figured on using it.

 

I decided the easiest way to get the proper size feed hole would be to silver solder the fitting closed and then drill a 1/32" hole.  The silver solder part went just fine but the drilling part not so  much

 

The tiny drill bit wandered a huge amount and ended up in the wrong part of the fitting before snapping off.   In the picture below you can see where I started off drilling in the left fitting.  I could see a faint impression of the original hole so that's where I started.

 

 

By the time the drill bit snapped it had wandered up and into the area where the nut screws into.  You can see the broken drill bit tip in the left fitting.  The right fitting is my last spare so I want to get it right the second time!

 

 

I'm beginning to think maybe I should use an epoxy like JB Weld to plug the original hole.  I think it might be easier to drill through and I believe JB Weld is oil resistant.

 

Any thoughts or tips on drilling with such tiny drill bits?

 

Thanks,

 

Brad

 

[Los_Control]

Just now, bkahler said:

I think it might be easier to drill through and I believe JB Weld is oil resistant.

I can agree it is oil resistant. I found a old electric flat griddle at a thrift store ... can cook a slab of bacon, pancakes and eggs all at same time.

The plastic grease trap was cracked & leaked .... I used JB-weld to fix it 3 years ago and is holding up great.

 

I would not suggest it for your purpose.  If I could not find the correct part. I would think a fix like a bolt with the same threads as the block & fitting. Cut it shorter to make a coupling from it, drill the bolt out.

Does not need to be grade 8 hardened bolt. Possibly stainless steel if you can find threads. It is pretty soft. or just cheaper grade 5 bolts.

I would pickup a few extra drill bits while you are at it. 1" coupler ... 1/2" in the block 1/2" out? might be longer then you need.

 

Just a idea, sure you could improve on it and make it better.

 

As a old carpenter, putty my buddy, does not belong inside engines. 

[JBNeal]

If ya look at the bore on the untouched spare fitting, notice it is located so that no oil collects in the fitting because it has enough relief to allow drainage back into the block casting.  To replicate this with the 1/32" bit would be quite a feat as them little bits flex if ya look at'm funny.  My opinion on that 1/32" fitting concurs with Merle's statement as it appears to be a flow restrictor to dampen pressure spikes, something that I have designed into industrial hydraulic systems for smoother operating hydraulic equipment.  I do not have one in my flatheads, and I'm thinking either the oil pressure gauges had a built-in restrictor or the restrictor was eliminated as the gauges were not as sensitive to pressure spikes as in previous models.

 

If ya want to try another approach, solder the bore, drill the 1/32" restrictor into what would be the vertical bore instead of the horizontal bore as it would be easier to center.  Definitely locate with a centering punch of some kind, maybe even a finishing nail could be hard enough to get that little divot stamped so that the drill bit point won't wander.

Edited May 24, 2021 by JBNeal
added link

[bkahler]

20 hours ago, Los_Control said:

I can agree it is oil resistant. I found a old electric flat griddle at a thrift store ... can cook a slab of bacon, pancakes and eggs all at same time.

The plastic grease trap was cracked & leaked .... I used JB-weld to fix it 3 years ago and is holding up great.

 

I would not suggest it for your purpose.  If I could not find the correct part. I would think a fix like a bolt with the same threads as the block & fitting. Cut it shorter to make a coupling from it, drill the bolt out.

Does not need to be grade 8 hardened bolt. Possibly stainless steel if you can find threads. It is pretty soft. or just cheaper grade 5 bolts.

I would pickup a few extra drill bits while you are at it. 1" coupler ... 1/2" in the block 1/2" out? might be longer then you need.

 

Just a idea, sure you could improve on it and make it better.

 

As a old carpenter, putty my buddy, does not belong inside engines. 

 

Unfortunately this approach won't work.  The fitting is an an inverted flare style and there is minimal room between the starter and the block for the fitting to fit in let alone any sort of adapter along with the fitting.  

 

I've got plenty of 1/32" drill bits.  I was rather surprised at just how much the bit deflected in the hole.  It was no where near straight!

 

Brad

[bkahler]

19 hours ago, JBNeal said:

If ya look at the bore on the untouched spare fitting, notice it is located so that no oil collects in the fitting because it has enough relief to allow drainage back into the block casting.  To replicate this with the 1/32" bit would be quite a feat as them little bits flex if ya look at'm funny.  My opinion on that 1/32" fitting concurs with Merle's statement as it appears to be a flow restrictor to dampen pressure spikes, something that I have designed into industrial hydraulic systems for smoother operating hydraulic equipment.  I do not have one in my flatheads, and I'm thinking either the oil pressure gauges had a built-in restrictor or the restrictor was eliminated as the gauges were not as sensitive to pressure spikes as in previous models.

 

So if I understand correctly you're saying your fittings do not have the 1/32" restrictor built in and you don't really have any issues with your gauge bouncing all over the place due to variations in fluid pressure.

 

 

19 hours ago, JBNeal said:

If ya want to try another approach, solder the bore, drill the 1/32" restrictor into what would be the vertical bore instead of the horizontal bore as it would be easier to center.  Definitely locate with a centering punch of some kind, maybe even a finishing nail could be hard enough to get that little divot stamped so that the drill bit point won't wander.

 

This approach would be rather challenging to perform, at least for me.  Mainly because of the inverted flare portion of the fitting.  Getting any silver solder in the wrong spot would negate the flare seal.  

 

I think I'll take the approach of not doing anything until I start the engine and see how the gauge reacts.  I prefer to procrastinate whenever possible!

 

Thanks,

 

Brad

[Los_Control]

41 minutes ago, bkahler said:

Unfortunately this approach won't work.  The fitting is an an inverted flare style and there is minimal room between the starter and the block for the fitting to fit in let alone any sort of adapter along with the fitting.  

Yeah I thought it sounded a bit funny. I am not sure where it actually needs to be.  Pretty sure it does not matter. There is a rail there of oil port   plugs. My gauge is using the port behind the oil filler tube. Which I think to be factory. The ones down by the starter are used normally for the add on oil filter. They bolt to the head right above them, so is a straight shot.

But am sure it does not matter where you connect them.

 

I have never read anyone talk about a special fitting with a 1/32" hole.  As someone else posted a photo with the gauge having a restriction built in, I just checked one and it is 3/32" opening.

I really think you need to do nothing.

 

Something else to consider while running a new line. The original was a metal line going near the firewall, then a coupling and a rubber line going  through the firewall to the gauge.

You can see mine is metal, sure the rubber rotted out and owner replaced it with metal.

These big torque monster engines rock back and forth and the rubber allows the line to flex.

You can see metal works also.

Just something to think about.

 

[ggdad1951]

2 hours ago, bkahler said:

 

Unfortunately this approach won't work.  The fitting is an an inverted flare style and there is minimal room between the starter and the block for the fitting to fit in let alone any sort of adapter along with the fitting.  

 

I've got plenty of 1/32" drill bits.  I was rather surprised at just how much the bit deflected in the hole.  It was no where near straight!

 

Brad

 slow and steady, should not drift that much.

[bkahler]

Ok, the oil gauge piping is done.   I installed my spare block fitting without modification.  Other than fluids all that's left before trying to start the engine is generator, starter and heat riser.  I'll try and tackle those tasks over the next couple of weeks.  

 

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. 

 

Brad

 

 

[bkahler]

One more item off the engine start list.  I'm assuming I have it installed correctly.  

 

 

[billrigsby]

On 5/25/2021 at 12:24 PM, ggdad1951 said:

 slow and steady, should not drift that much.

 

Using a drill press?

 

A Dremel works good for making the 'starting point' if a punch don't get you there.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by billrigsby

[ggdad1951]

11 hours ago, billrigsby said:

 

Using a drill press?

 

A Dremel works good for making the 'starting point' if a punch don't get you there.

 

 

 

Drill press with the fitting in a vice would be best or if possible a mill (less potential precession).  Hand held drill won't likely work well IMO.