50 Plymouth home.... kind of.

[edrendek7777]

Hey all. So I got my new car home today...  yaaaaaay. Drove around here and there for an hour or so and then stopped at my house, went to start it back up and nothing... boooooo. It was slow to start the final stop before my house I noticed. If there is a lot of stop and go does the battery die quicker?  Was this a rookie mistake?  Could the battery be done?  It is a few years old I think and not used much for a few years. I do have a new one in my 4 door, should I just swap them out and see?  Seems pretty easy. Anything else it could be?

Can not wait to clean it up. 

 

[dhrandy]

Could just be a bad battery. Could be the generate/alternater not charging, depending on which you have. You can take a voltmeter and narrow down what's going on, braking shouldn't have anything to do with it. 

 

Do you know if you are 6 or 12 volts? If it's 6, it will probably be 6 volt positive ground.  If it's had a 12 volt conversion you can swap the battery. 

 

If the battery hasn't been problem maintained you could just have a bad battery.

[edrendek7777]

6 volt system. I have another almost new 6 volt battery I was going to install tomorrow. Hopefully that works. 

[soth122003]

Check your terminal ends and cables for corrosion. That puts a high current drag on starting the car. Also the size of the battery cables. 2/0 or larger for better conductivity of 6 volts. And like was said before check the charging system. Take the old battery and charge it up then do a load check on it to see if it is bad or not.

 

Joe Lee

[Go Fleiter]

Hello,

 well, first check battery voltage!

If loaded properly it should have 6.5 V at least!

After having tried to start it still should have > 6,2 V.

When loading (after having warmed up the voltage regulator) 7.0 up to 7.4 V.

(I suggest to install a V-meter under the dash- very helpful for early diagnosis anticipating

loading problems!)

Before putting Your spare battery: load it full!!

 

You don´t have had a vapor Lock? This happens on hot motors when after 10-15 minutes

all the gas in the carb has evaporated. Wait or cool the carb or pump fresh gas - but the latter

will stress your battery very much!

(later relief: put an electrical pump parallel and let that one do the pre- start pumping-

instead of torturing Your starter and batt.)

Greetings from Düsseldorf!

Go

 

 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Go Fleiter

[Sam Buchanan]

I second the recommendation to install a voltmeter, that is the best way to diagnose charging problems and show the true condition of your battery. I installed one under the dash while troubleshooting the erratic generator/regulator in my P15 before getting tired of chasing problems and installing an alternator as the final solution. I had to search for awhile to find an inexpensive meter with a low enough scale to easily read 6-8v but found this one on eBay. You might also find one in the antique tractor community.

 

Even though the alternator has proven to be rock solid I still find the meter a good way to confirm battery condition so it is still in the car.

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Sam Buchanan

[edrendek7777]

Well after a few discussions it turns out it may be the generator and not the battery.  The longer I ran it the worse it got from starting, turning off, then starting back up.  So I learned that while the car is running the generator should essentially recharge the battery, which it obviously did not.  So you say that you installed an alternator, instead of a generator?  Is that a big deal to do?  I am having someone help me with all this on Sunday morning, hopefully it works.  I am actually going to pull the generator off my 4 door and install on the new 2 door.  Hopefully that works.  Then I was planning on taking the generator from the new 2 door somewhere to get rebuilt.  Should I look into an alternator instead?  Is that a better route?  Thanks all.

Ed

[keithb7]

An alternator is sort of like a really efficient charging device, when compared to a generator. A generator does the job however only when a certain rpm is reached. An alternator charges very well, even at idle. A generator does not.  Lots of idling, say in a traffic jam has your old 6V generator equipped electrical system running off your battery. Draining your battery. Especially if it’s dark, headlights, heater and radio on. draining it. 

 

That won’t happen with an alternator. Additionally I think the voltage regulator needed for a generator, is not required for an alternator.  Another item that needs maintenance and adjustment. 

 

Your generator may appear to be spent. However it could also be the regulator needs adjustment. 

 

Get a good battery. Charge it fully. Get a multi-meter. Check some DC voltages. With and without the engine running.  Drive the car some. Monitor the voltages and you’ll know what’s going on. 

 

Does your car have an ammeter in the dash?

Edited August 27, 2019 by keithb7

[Sam Buchanan]

2 hours ago, edrendek7777 said:

Well after a few discussions it turns out it may be the generator and not the battery.  The longer I ran it the worse it got from starting, turning off, then starting back up.  So I learned that while the car is running the generator should essentially recharge the battery, which it obviously did not.  So you say that you installed an alternator, instead of a generator?  Is that a big deal to do?  I am having someone help me with all this on Sunday morning, hopefully it works.  I am actually going to pull the generator off my 4 door and install on the new 2 door.  Hopefully that works.  Then I was planning on taking the generator from the new 2 door somewhere to get rebuilt.  Should I look into an alternator instead?  Is that a better route?  Thanks all.

Ed

 

There are very good reasons why modern cars have an alternator instead of generator and regulator.....keithb7 pointed out several of them. Here is what the alternator installation looks like in my car:

 

 

 

There is only one wire coming from the alternator and there is no voltage regulator, the alternator is internally regulated.....very simple....and your ammeter will still work. The black box you see where the regulator used to be is a 60a fuse. It is usually necessary to fabricate a different alternator brace but that is a simple job, and you can purchase the alternator with a bracket that is adaptable to the old generator bracket. Here is what I'm using:

 

https://www.qualitypowerauto.com/category_2/Special-Applications--6-Volt-8-Volt-and-12-Volt-Positive-Ground.htm

 

 

 

For less than $150 I expect to have a stable, strong maintenance-free charging system that will last longer than I own the car. I also highly recommend you install a new set of battery cables if the old ones are showing any sign of degradation. Less than $50 and one of the best things you can do for improving starter performance:

 

https://www.batterycablesusa.com/1-0-gauge-battery-cables-0-awg.html

 

So....for $200 you have a new robust charging system that shouldn't need any future attention and will offer better performance than the old system ever could.  

 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Sam Buchanan

[DJ194950]

Sam I must say the 6 volt. alternator prices are by far the most reasonable that I have seen.

Does the price include a choice of pulley included at that price??

Otherwise his pulley prices seem to be slightly higher than I have seen.

 

In your picture I just noticed that one of your spark plugs wires seems to be off of the dist. cap. It's the one on the left side of the coil under the red wire running from the dist. to the coil.

Maybe the boot itself is not pushed down? Optical illusion? My eyes are crossed???

 

DJ

[Sam Buchanan]

26 minutes ago, DJ194950 said:

Sam I must say the 6 volt. alternator prices are by far the most reasonable that I have seen.

Does the price include a choice of pulley included at that price??

Otherwise his pulley prices seem to be slightly higher than I have seen.

 

In your picture I just noticed that one of your spark plugs wires seems to be off of the dist. cap. It's the one on the left side of the coil under the red wire running from the dist. to the coil.

Maybe the boot itself is not pushed down? Optical illusion? My eyes are crossed???

 

DJ

 

Pulley is included, my alternator was $129.95......shipped....it is a race-horse deal for a 60amp alternator. I didn't purchase the bracket, fabbed my own. After chasing an erratic gen/reg voltage and taking the regulator apart twice, trying a new regulator that was DOA, then having the whole mess just totally die, it was a wonderful moment when I fired up the new alternator and immediately saw a solid 7.2 volts. It has been flawless since and "refills" the battery a minute or so after a start.

 

The ignition wires are fine, just some dirt on the distributor cap caused an optical convulsion.... 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Sam Buchanan

[edrendek7777]

Do any of you have any idea which I need of the below for my 50 Plymouth?

 

Pulley Options

Standard 3/8” belt 
Dual V-Belt for 3/8” belts 
1/2” belt -- 2.6” Diameter 
5/8” belt -- 3” Diameter 
5/8 or 3/4” belt -- 2 1/4” Diameter

[Los_Control]

Look at your existing pulley's and belt ... is it a modern skinny belt, or do you have the old school fat tractor belt on it?

 

My 1949 truck with a 1950 motor, the truck uses the fat belt,  5/8" but someone before me changed the generator and it has the skinny pulley 3/8"

My pulley are mis matched in width ... as long as I run the skinny belt, it works on the wider pulley's ... but the wider belt would not work on the skinny pulley.

 

You just have to measure and see what you have .... to many options over the years on a 70 year old car.

[Sam Buchanan]

I forgot to add....there was a question about my alternator order and the vendor took it on himself to call me and make sure I had received what I wanted. I talked to him a couple of times and came away impressed with his integrity and eagerness to follow up with a customer. Great price, excellent personal service.....I like. 

 

One other item; the alternator pulley nut protrudes more than the generator nut. The old nut is flush with the forward face of the generator pulley, the alternator nut protrudes forward of the pulley face a bit. In my case I used a slightly longer belt (mine is 5/8" wide) so there would not be interference with the fan blades. The vendor told me he had heard of other instances where the belt length needed to be tweaked. He also stated that the nut had enough meat for minor machining if the installation is particularly tight. Mine worked fine.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Sam Buchanan

[edrendek7777]

So guess what I just noticed?  Apparently my 50 Plymouth is an 8 volt negative ground...  soooooooo what do I do now. I am planning on swapping my generator and 6 volt battery from my other 50 into this one. So is this going to screw everything up?  When I install the new 6 volt battery should I make it positive ground like it is supposed to be?  I am planning on doing that work Sunday morning with a little help. 

[edrendek7777]

I would go the alternator route but figure since I have a donor car I should just utilize it to save some cash now. May help in the long run since I am sure things like this will just keep popping up. 

[Sam Buchanan]

27 minutes ago, edrendek7777 said:

So guess what I just noticed?  Apparently my 50 Plymouth is an 8 volt negative ground...  soooooooo what do I do now. I am planning on swapping my generator and 6 volt battery from my other 50 into this one. So is this going to screw everything up?  When I install the new 6 volt battery should I make it positive ground like it is supposed to be?  I am planning on doing that work Sunday morning with a little help. 

 

If your car has been truly changed to negative ground the coil and ammeter wires have been reversed. If that is the case (ammeter shows discharge when you turn on the lights without the engine running)  turn the battery around so you have the negative post grounded. Probably need to install the regulator from the donor as well since it is set up for charging the 6v battery. If your donor items turn out to be sketchy you can go the alternator route. 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Sam Buchanan