Me and the B-1-D

[JBNeal]

The risk of removing material from a drum is twofold:  these drums have been out of production for decades, so great care has to be exercised to keep them usable...too much material removed from the drum might not be seen from a performance standpoint with new shoes, but as those shoes wear, the wheel cylinder pistons may travel too far in the bore and may get jammed or blow out, causing total brake failure from the ensuing brake fluid loss ?

 

These are not self adjusting brakes, so every 5-10k miles, the brakes have to be measured and adjusted, which is a tedious task but necessary to optimize braking performance.  With brake shoe wear, the distance between the shoes and the drums grows, increasing brake engagement time which ultimately lengthens braking distance.

 

A few years ago, I replaced some suspension parts on The Blue Bomber, which amplified the vibration in the rear rotors...when I had them turned, they were under the min.thickness, but I had new brake pads so I ran those old rotors for another 30k without any problems...probably could have put another 10k on them, but had a break in my schedule and replaced them rotors which had 200k on them at that point...this budgetary approach to brake maintenance is kinda in between the lines in the shop manual for our old one tons, with the listing of only the gap between the shoes and the drum and not the maximum diameter

[Worden18]

1 hour ago, keithb7 said:

Say .005 was taken off the drum. Doesn't sound like much however I believe some hydraulic and mechanical advantage is lost. Not much I suspect. I need an engineer to help me there! However I have seen the brake pins from the wheel cylinder to the shoes are available in different lengths. Perhaps a slightly longer pin could gain back any possible lost braking force? A friend with a machine shop could prove invaluable!

 

I too like the truck. It's a beauty.  Additionally great is to see your son out there showing interest and helping.  Hopefully his help is rewarded with driving lessons on that dirt road out in the country side. Set the hook and you've got a gear-head helper for life! I fear my '38 will never see MN. Otherwise I'd surely let him drive it!

I work in a machine shop, so I can turn the drums myself.  If need be, I could even make longer pins.  I'll do what it takes.  There will be a lot of questions along the way ?

[Worden18]

July 12:

My son and I finally got the driver's rear wheel off.  One stud is broken off.  I imagine that is going to give me trouble to remove at some point.  The drum says Budd on it (with some numbers) and also, on the shaft part a "D" is stamped.  My shop manual says "remove wheel, remove brake drum" and then it gives a little bit more specific instructions on how to remove the shoes, etc.  Well I'm lost now!  How the heck do I remove the brake drum? And what is the square hole on the face of the drum?  What is the extra hole between the nuts on the end of the axle?  I suppose I'll have to remove those outer bolts on the end of the axle... I can see that much.  But what's behind that I should be prepared for? Gonna really need you guys' help on this.  Thanks ?

Edited July 13, 2020 by Worden18

[Dodgeb4ya]

The square hole is to check brake lining thickness and to see lining to drum clearance.

The two threaded holes between the axle flange nuts is to insert a bolt or two to push the axle flange off the drum hub once all.six nuts are removed.

Then deeper in you will have more questions I bet.

[JBNeal]

Flip over to the rear axle section of the shop manual for more information on how to service that full-floating axle...eventually you will need an axle nut socket and a flashlight

Edited July 13, 2020 by JBNeal
added link

[Worden18]

7 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

The square hole is to check brake lining thickness and to see lining to drum clearance.

The two threaded holes between the axle flange nuts is to insert a bolt or two to push the axle flange off the drum hub once all.six nuts are removed.

Then deeper in you will have more questions I bet.

Thanks man ?

[Worden18]

5 hours ago, JBNeal said:

Flip over to the rear axle section of the shop manual for more information on how to service that full-floating axle...eventually you will need an axle nut socket and a flashlight

Okay, will do.  Thanks

[Merle Coggins]

That little notch in the drum is nice when adjusting your shoes. You can get a visual on what your clearances are as you spin the drum. I wish the smaller trucks had those.

 

As for removing the axle shaft, I usually give the center of the end cap a smack with a hammer, after removing the nuts, and it will usually pop out slightly. If not, then you can use those other two holes with pusher bolts to pull it out.

 

Once you get that out you will see the retainer nuts. There's an outer lock nut, locking washer, and inner nut. They are 8 sided, as I remember. I bought a socket for them when I was helping Kris with his brake job. They're not that expensive. If you don't have the socket wrench a hammer and punch/chisel is often used to remove the lock nut. The socket just makes it easier, and more professional. Pretty simple... much like removing the front drums once you get to that part.

[Merle Coggins]

F.Y.I. This is the socket you’ll want/need. It has a 3/4” drive, so you may also want to have a 3/4”to 1/2” drive adapter. 

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Merle Coggins

[Brent B3B]

on behalf of the next guy, Please don’t use a hammer and chisel..... 

I made a few for my different trucks 

 

cause it made me smile ? 

[ggdad1951]

if you have access to a CNC plasma or laser, there are patterns for tools here:

https://p15-d24.com/files/category/3-tools/

[Worden18]

July 19:

It's actually pleasant and breezy in my garage, and I'm enjoying the "surf music" compilation on YouTube as I work on the 48.  I got the driver's front apart.  Took me long enough, but it was fun.  Here's where I started:

Pic 2: untouched for who knows how long.

Pic 1: using the tool a friend gave me to remove the return spring.

 

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by Worden18

[Worden18]

Question:

The backing plate...is that center piece riveted on?  Should I just clean it up and leave it be?

[Worden18]

Question #2:

I took off the rubber caps from the wheel cylinder.  There are no pins! LOL 

But why the rectangular slot?  I believe my Meadowbrook caps have round slots...not sure I've ever seen ones like this.  I wonder if replacement wheel cylinder kits have round slots and pins?  What kind are on your trucks?  I wonder if the PO had any idea that the brakes wouldn't function without the pins??

[Worden18]

Question #3:

The brake drum itself; is that a seal in the back side?  Can I remove it?  What's behind it?

[Brent B3B]

#1 if it was mine i’d leave it
#2, no on the pins. My 1/2t uses the “pins” but my 1t, 1.5t use the slotted pistons. The shoes fit in the slot. 
 

#3 if you have the drums turned, I was told the seals will need to be removed. (Luckily I was able to just clean mine up)
 

the above is just my opinion  ?

[ggdad1951]

What brent said.

 

Behind the seal should be a bearing.

[Worden18]

Thanks for the responses fellas.  Makes sense.  Looks like I'm the fool concerning the wheel cylinder pins ha ha. 

Hey, look what I found amongst my truck stuff.  Looks like a home made jobbie for the rear axle.  I'll test it out soon enough.

[9 foot box]

   I use a stick of wood against the brake shoe for the spring removal tool to dig into to prevent damage to the lining. It also works as an additional lever. That wheel hasn’t had a major brake adjustment, but the ridge on the drum will have to be removed for proper shoe adjustment. Considering your moves, it’s good you can find those boxes of stuff. I sure liked that barn.

[JBNeal]

additional information - brake spring pliers help

[Worden18]

July 20:

I took the driver's side front brake drum to work so I could measure it with the boss's 12" caliper.  They are pretty close to 11"... depending on placement of the caliper over some surface rust.  And there is no lip on the end, which is good.  I'm thinking its never been turned, unless it started its life .050-.060 undersize, which I don't know if that's how they came from the factory.  Thoughts?

 

Also, I'm sure I could get it to clean up nicely with a .010 or less skim cut.

[Worden18]

August 3:

Thanks to some PM help from a couple of the forum members I realize the rear axle drain plug is the center bolt on the bottom rear of the pumpkin.  Fill plug is on the passenger side.  Not a hell of a lot of 90w came out fellas.  I know it's supposed to be filled to the bottom of the fill plug, which I'm sure would correlate to the manual's lubrication chart stating the capacity is 5.5 pints (2.75 qts).  I don't think 3/4 of a quart came out.  When I'm done with the rear brakes, it'll get fresh gear lube.  

 

[Worden18]

Aug. 3:

A couple more pics for you guys.  The spare tire is still mounted under there.  Frame is really clean, especially for being 72 years old.  It originally came from North Dakota, in case anyone hasn't read some of my previous posts.  I'm going to keep plugging away at the maintenance. I'm slow but I'll get there.  

[JBNeal]

ya might want to snake a stiff wire in that axle housing drain to see if any sludge is piled up in there...but more than likely the differential leaked out of that old crusty leather pinion seal, judging by the dribbling evidence in that area...

[ggdad1951]

Yep, over time the leaks get ya!   I didn't pull much more outa FEF on his tear down.