Tom Skinner Posted January 6, 2019 Report Posted January 6, 2019 Gents, I am pretty sure my Horn Ring somehow shorted out my Horn Relay. My Horn Relay smoked and burnt up. I disconnected it in time. Smoke, no fire. I have the 4 prong switch which is in turn attached to a 3 prong relay. With the S, B, H. Letters on it. The S goes to the 4 Prong Switch, the B goes to the Battery Terminal B on the Voltage Regulator, and the H wire goes straight up the Steering Wheel Shaft to the Horn Ring. I have ordered a new Relay on ebay, it is coming next week in the mail. Now for the question: Can one hook up a fuse to the H Wire, so that in the event the Horn Ring at the Steering Wheel Base Shorts out the Fuse will blow without causing damage to the Relay Switch? If so what size fuse would you use? 10, 15, etc.? Thank you for any help. Tom Quote
desoto1939 Posted January 6, 2019 Report Posted January 6, 2019 Tom: I would think you could because on my horn relay that is on the bracket for the two trumpet horns on my 39 Desoto there isa a 20 amp fuse. So I think an inline 20 amp fuse might work on your car also. the autolite number is HRL- 4101and replaces HRL-4001 used on Chrysler 42 and 1946-49 according to my autolite catalog rich Hartung desoto1939@aol.com Quote
Tom Skinner Posted January 6, 2019 Author Report Posted January 6, 2019 Rich, Thank you Sir! Tom Quote
Merle Coggins Posted January 6, 2019 Report Posted January 6, 2019 I’m a little confused about your situation. I don’t know the Chrysler wiring, and don’t have a schematic for your car, but in most cases the horn ring provides a ground for the horn, or horn relay. If there was a short in the horn ring it would only provide constant ground and have the horn sounding off constantly. I also don’t understand what 4 prong switch you are referring to. The ignition switch? It seems to me that your relay is wired wrong. You didn’t mention any of the relay wires going to the horns themselves. I would guess that the H,B,and S on the relay would refer to Horn, Battery, and Switch. If that’s the case, your B terminal is the only one connected properly. S would go up to your horn ring on the steering wheel and H would go to the horns. Maybe someone has a wire diagram for your car to verify this? 1 Quote
desoto1939 Posted January 6, 2019 Report Posted January 6, 2019 Merle: I have verified in my Echlin iginition catalog that the correct Hr relay is Autolite HRL-4101 and the Echlin number is HR 104 6v 4 terminal relay. The picture does not indicate which terminal is wired to on the car so the 4 terminal unit is correct for Chrysler 42, 46-48. If the owner has a wireing diagram it willthen show him which terminal to connect to which other end either on the regulator battery and horns. I have uploaded the data sheets per my Echlin catalog and shows pictures of the HR104 Rich Hartung desoto1939@aol.com Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted January 6, 2019 Report Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) it is a 4 post relay due to the fact it is switching the unit on by controlling the ground wire....the relay coil will have + voltage on it and as it is in this era being switched power for the horn relay...the relay will energize with the depressing of the horn ring which takes the relay internal coil to ground, this action energizes the low current coil and closes the higher rated current contacts that supplies power to the horn itself....an ohm meter will easily define which contacts are the coil....the other two will be the switched contacts that are made when the coil energizes thus powering your down stream device/circuit. Edited January 6, 2019 by Plymouthy Adams Quote
Tom Skinner Posted January 6, 2019 Author Report Posted January 6, 2019 HR 104 looks correct. I am sure I did not wire it wrong. The problem is I bought a (supposed) 6 volt Relay with a 6 Volt Sticker over a 12 Volt Stamp in the Relay from Dennis Carpenter's Ford Place in Concord NC. Probably a HR 101. It burnt up because it wasn't really 6 Volt. Everything is going to be fine when my new Relay comes in - I hope - otherwise I will have a 20 A Fuse in the S Line to prevent any further trouble. Thank you all for the concerns. I will post back once I install the correct Relay with a 20A Fuse. Tom Quote
Tom Skinner Posted January 7, 2019 Author Report Posted January 7, 2019 Dodgeb4ya, Yes exactly however I have another unit next to this Box you show (H.S.B. IGN.) which is a S.B.H. another Relay maybe I am wired wrong because my H Wire is going up my Wheel Shaft not my S wire. I will take a picture of it and post it later in the day when I get home from work. Thanks Tom Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 7, 2019 Report Posted January 7, 2019 The picture I posted is how a 1946-54 MoPar car is wired. The horn will only operate with the ignition switch turned on. Some cars the horns can operate with the key off.... if there is a short in the horn button the horn will continue to wail away until the battery cable is removed. MoPars ahave a better idea. Quote
Tom Skinner Posted January 7, 2019 Author Report Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) OK here goes, I wish I knew what to do but this is how it is/was wired and worked for years on my 1948 Chrysler Royal with Fluid Drive. If I could I would do away with the 3 prong relay. Also I was messing with the horn Ring at the wheel when it fissled/burnt up the 3 prong relay Edited January 7, 2019 by Tom Skinner more info Quote
Tom Skinner Posted January 7, 2019 Author Report Posted January 7, 2019 By the way, My horn blew even when ignition was turned off Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted January 7, 2019 Report Posted January 7, 2019 2 hours ago, Tom Skinner said: OK here goes, I wish I knew what to do but this is how it is/was wired and worked for years on my 1948 Chrysler Royal with Fluid Drive. If I could I would do away with the 3 prong relay. Also I was messing with the horn Ring at the wheel when it fissled/burnt up the 3 prong relay I do not understand the need for a relay to power a relay...explain this application.... 1 Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 8, 2019 Report Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) You should only use a four terminal factory relay.... yes why two I wonder? My 1946-8 Chryslers and every one I've ever worked on has only one factory four terminal HRL 4101 Autolite horn relay. Edited January 8, 2019 by Dodgeb4ya spelling Quote
Tom Skinner Posted January 8, 2019 Author Report Posted January 8, 2019 Plymouthyadams, I can't explain it. Can anyone else? Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted January 8, 2019 Report Posted January 8, 2019 there is no need to energize the low current coil of the relay with another relay.....follow the wiring of the 4 post relay as provided by Bob and described by myself early on in this thread...you need but a single device for the horn circuit.... Quote
Tom Skinner Posted January 8, 2019 Author Report Posted January 8, 2019 10-4, I will try tonight after work and report back Quote
Tom Skinner Posted January 8, 2019 Author Report Posted January 8, 2019 OK, So I had my S and H wire opposite on the Relay picture. None the less, I tried every conceivable way once I identified my H and IGN posts on my 4 prong Horn Switch , and the B Wire wouldn't go to the B Post without sparks flying. Would it go on the IGN Post? Anyhow still not able to figure this out. I knew going in I wasn't an electrician. L.O.L. Quote
Tom Skinner Posted January 8, 2019 Author Report Posted January 8, 2019 I should also add my 4 Prong Horn Switch has no H,S,B, or Ign markings on it. It does have the HRL4101 on it though Quote
DJ194950 Posted January 8, 2019 Report Posted January 8, 2019 Ok, no other wires than shown in the diagram are hooked to the relay?? What I am suggesting is someone may have tried some other creative wiring?? That is crossing some hot and grounding wires that in end up crossed when you try to connect your wires to the relay? You may also have wires that are currently grounded (bare, etc.) that should not be. Condition of all wires involved? Just a few thoughts and things to check. DJ Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted January 8, 2019 Report Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) and what does your VOM say about when you read the relay? and is this the 4 post or the three post you messing with....? AND does the horn work in as stand alone test? Edited January 8, 2019 by Plymouthy Adams Quote
Tom Skinner Posted January 8, 2019 Author Report Posted January 8, 2019 My Wires are all new as Rhode Island Wire. So Frayed Wires are not the case. Picture to follow Quote
Tom Skinner Posted January 8, 2019 Author Report Posted January 8, 2019 OK I used a jumper from Ground to S Horn doesn't sound. The Horn Button is not defective Quote
Tom Skinner Posted January 8, 2019 Author Report Posted January 8, 2019 Gents, I used a jumper from B to H and the Horn sounded indicating a bad Horn Switch. NOT SO IT IS BRAND NEW Its looking like I should have to add the 3 Prong Relay - its coming in the mail. Maybe some day at a car show some one more intelligent than me can show me otherwise. Thank you for your help! Tom Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.