My First Car -- P15 1947 Plymouth Deluxe

[NickPickToo]

1 hour ago, casper50 said:

 What color is it by the way?

It's called Super Chrome.  Its a base coat that is then coated again with a clear coat to get the chrome effect.   The dash is Illusory Rose Gold.  It too is a base with a clear over it to get the effect.

 

I am also not liking the price of chrome for bumpers.  I saw another post on the forum where someone sanded down to bare metal and then treated with an oil before clear coating.  Looks like a lot of work, but my dad calls it "sweat equity"

Edited October 30, 2018 by NickPickToo

[casper50]

Nick did you forget to put the name in?

 

[Eneto-55]

1 hour ago, NickPickToo said:

The chrome parts for the dash were powder coated rather than re chromed. real re chroming doesn't fit into the budget.   The team at the powder coating shop advised me not to powder coat chrome color on any of the exterior parts (doesn't seem to hold up well in the weather) but that it may hold up better on the interior parts.  We'll see.

 

It's nice to hear that some powder coating shops are admitting that powder coating doesn't weather well.  I worked in a powder coating shop for three years, and at the start I thought it would be a great solution for suspension parts, etc.  (I applied to work there because I worked in the plating industry years ago, and knowing that it is in some ways a similar process, wanted to learn more about it, and felt I had something to contribute to that local shop, who had only recently added powder coating to their operation.)  The problem with powder coating is that it is usually applied w/o any sort of primer stage, and sure it's very hard, but somehow rust gets started underneath, and it stays hidden until lots of damage has already been done.  (Water retention under the paint.)  It is also rather difficult to remove, until it scales off due to the underlying rust.  (Even hard to blast off w/o damaging the surface.)  It doesn't sand well, either, clogging the sand paper, and it won't feather out at the edges.  The application process results in the same sort of problems encountered in electro plating - it is difficult to get good coverage in crevices and corners.  (The opposite of wet coating, where the paint tends to flow into crevices, and build up too thick there.)  But in electro plating, we would run the amps up high for a bit in the beginning to get material into the crevices, then back off the amps to plate the other surfaces.  (Keeping it up too high for very long 'burns' the areas closer to the anodes, producing a rough surface.)  With some types of plating we could also use an anode on a probe, to get into crevices and interior areas.  For chrome (with which I didn't have a lot of experience - I worked mostly in cadmium, hot & cold tin, zinc, copper, & hot & bright nickel) a quality job will entail a three stage process, copper & nickel, then chrome.  In the powder coating shop where I worked, we tried to 'float' the powder into corners to get better coverage, but in extreme situations the confined areas got very little color material, and just got a sort of tinted clear coat.  It may be that more sophisticated powder coat booths would have multiple (and smaller) guns, to get into confined areas better.  I would tend to think, however, that a more automated paint booth would suffer from the lack of direct operator attention.

[NickPickToo]

3 hours ago, casper50 said:

Nick did you forget to put the name in?

 

Super Chrome is the color for the small trim pieces on the dash and Illusory Rose Gold is the main color on the dash and interior trim pieces. 

[casper50]

tks

[NickPickToo]

2 hours ago, Eneto-55 said:

 

 It may be that more sophisticated powder coat booths would have multiple (and smaller) guns, to get into confined areas better.  I would tend to think, however, that a more automated paint booth would suffer from the lack of direct operator attention.

This is a two man shop set up in one of the bins at a self storage facility it’s a no frills facility but They do sandblasting, powdercoating and ceramic coating.  Couple real artist. They seemed more exited about the final outcome than I was. They were really happy for me.   “Quality Powder Coat” in Heartland Michigan 

[casper50]

Nice to plug someone that cares about the job that they do.  It looks great.

[Eneto-55]

2 hours ago, NickPickToo said:

This is a two man shop set up in one of the bins at a self storage facility it’s a no frills facility but They do sandblasting, powdercoating and ceramic coating.  Couple real artist. They seemed more exited about the final outcome than I was. They were really happy for me.   “Quality Powder Coat” in Heartland Michigan 

Honesty up front always impresses me.  I was in the place where I used to work (doing powder coating) years later (I regularly have parts punched out there for my business), and I overheard the sales guy telling a customer that the (outdoor) hand rail she was ordering would be better done in aluminum, then powder coated, because "if it's built with steel it will rust."  When I was working there they were making claims about how much better it was compared to electro-plating.....

[NickPickToo]

Engine of frame today.  We will take frame in for sandblasting before rebuilding suspension and changing out the brakes.  Will take this opportunity to clean up the engine on its outside as well.

Edited November 3, 2018 by NickPickToo

[Andydodge]

Eneto.......interesting your comments about plating, my experience over the years is that in general you get what you pay for, however not always............lol......as you mention, the 3 steps to a good chrome plating job, copper, nickel then chrome however the main step is really in the initial metal polishing which even before the copper plating should give you a finish, if on steel, an appearance of a finished polished surface, as any imperfections will show on the final chrome finish so even before copper it should be highly polished and reflective..........whilst I don't doubt that there are some very good paints and finishes available now I have yet to be convinced that they are as good as a good chrome plating job..........but I DO understand the cost factor...........regards, andyd    

[knuckleharley]

1 hour ago, Andydodge said:

Eneto.......interesting your comments about plating, my experience over the years is that in general you get what you pay for, however not always............lol......as you mention, the 3 steps to a good chrome plating job, copper, nickel then chrome however the main step is really in the initial metal polishing which even before the copper plating should give you a finish, if on steel, an appearance of a finished polished surface, as any imperfections will show on the final chrome finish so even before copper it should be highly polished and reflective..........whilst I don't doubt that there are some very good paints and finishes available now I have yet to be convinced that they are as good as a good chrome plating job..........but I DO understand the cost factor...........regards, andyd    

There is a process being used today that uses what amounts to "chrome decals". You just peel them off and carefully wrap them around the bumpers or other items,and apply it just like a decal,using water and squeegees. Have no idea how long it lasts,but it is the same process used to put murals on tractor trailers and the 40 foot trailers they haul,so it must be fairly durable.

 

There are a bunch of videos on you tube about this,too.

 

I want to point out that I personally have ZERO experience using this stuff myself,and don't personally know anyone that has/

[casper50]

I had to wrap my rear bumper as I haven't found a good chromed one yet.  It's in my rebuild thread.  Lessons learned:  you need more than one person.  Secure the object being wrapped really well, don't go cheap on the vinyl wrap.  I went cheap as I hoped that I would find a decent bumper quickly.   It's still holding up well after a year.  It looks close enough to chrome that no one has commented about it after being in 4 car shows this summer.

[NickPick'sCrew]

Seeking Advice.  Looking at that spear we call a steering shaft and thinking about how it would figure into a potential crash, I was wondering if anyone has a suggestion on how to modify this set-up (short of replacing it all together) so that it would be more likely to fold or collapse vs pommeling or impaling whoever is in the drivers seat?

[knuckleharley]

7 hours ago, casper50 said:

I had to wrap my rear bumper as I haven't found a good chromed one yet.  It's in my rebuild thread.  Lessons learned:  you need more than one person.  Secure the object being wrapped really well, don't go cheap on the vinyl wrap.  I went cheap as I hoped that I would find a decent bumper quickly.   It's still holding up well after a year.  It looks close enough to chrome that no one has commented about it after being in 4 car shows this summer.

No,it looks EXACTLY like a chromed bumper or you would have heard all kinds of snide comments about it at shows.

[HotRodTractor]

9 hours ago, casper50 said:

I had to wrap my rear bumper as I haven't found a good chromed one yet.  It's in my rebuild thread.  Lessons learned:  you need more than one person.  Secure the object being wrapped really well, don't go cheap on the vinyl wrap.  I went cheap as I hoped that I would find a decent bumper quickly.   It's still holding up well after a year.  It looks close enough to chrome that no one has commented about it after being in 4 car shows this summer.

 

I had to go look that up as  I didn't remember that section of your build exactly - that is some nice coverup work that I can see myself doing on a project for a driver. HERE IT IS for anyone that is interested in going to read it.

[casper50]

Here's a video of the final wrapped bumper.  The guy that I had do it said the wrinkles are because the cheap wrap that I bought would not stretch.  Look at the chrome bumper guards and the bumper and you see the contrast.    

 

[kbuhagiar]

3 hours ago, NickPick'sCrew said:

Seeking Advice.  Looking at that spear we call a steering shaft and thinking about how it would figure into a potential crash, I was wondering if anyone has a suggestion on how to modify this set-up (short of replacing it all together) so that it would be more likely to fold or collapse vs pommeling or impaling whoever is in the drivers seat?

 

 

Hello Crew,

 

Nice to see the project progressing so well.

 

Hard to think of any options short of replacement...I know that budget is a primary concern, but unless you have an inside connection to someone with serious fabrication/welding skills, it may be your only option. If you go that route you could probably keep costs down by adapting a column from a wrecking yard. You would need to modify the box end to accept the appropriate u-joint/rag joint. I'm sure someone on board here could chime in with which columns are easiest to adapt to a P15.

 

Good luck!

Edited November 4, 2018 by kbuhagiar

[DonaldSmith]

Re: Post 238 and collapsible steering column:  The safety consideration had bothered me on my 47 DeSoto. 

I think I solved the issue when I installed power steering.  I cut the steering column jacket just below the shifting apparatus at the cowl.  I and added a bracket to support the column and a bushing to support the steering shaft.  I cut the shaft and had a splined plug welded in.  Then I added U-joints and D-shafts to connect to the power steering gearbox, whose shaft was not in line with the steering shaft.    It looks lke the U-joints and shafts would now allow for collapse in case of a front-ender.  

If you had the U-joints and shafts in line with the steering gear, I don't know if the assembly would fold in a crash.  There are telescoping shafts available, but I didn't have room for one in my setup.

(I typed this in 16 point font; the better to see the typos before posting.  Usually, I post my message and then I see the glaring typos.)  

 

[Eneto-55]

19 hours ago, Andydodge said:

Eneto.......interesting your comments about plating, my experience over the years is that in general you get what you pay for, however not always............lol......as you mention, the 3 steps to a good chrome plating job, copper, nickel then chrome however the main step is really in the initial metal polishing which even before the copper plating should give you a finish, if on steel, an appearance of a finished polished surface, as any imperfections will show on the final chrome finish so even before copper it should be highly polished and reflective..........whilst I don't doubt that there are some very good paints and finishes available now I have yet to be convinced that they are as good as a good chrome plating job..........but I DO understand the cost factor...........regards, andyd    

I didn't work in the chrome area very often, just a couple of times when we were plating (pot metal) fishing reel cranks.  Most of the work they did in that department was industrial chrome - plating aircraft cranks back to specs.

But regarding the polishing stage, THINK (but not positive) that some would fill minor imperfections with the copper plating, then polish that, as it is a softer metal to work (than steel).  But I did see one of the bosses' friends grinding & polishing the steering arms off of a Ford roadster he had.  He then had them chrome them.  So that would have been done as you describe - polishing the steel before any plating work.  He finished polishing then on a 3M / scotch-brite type polishing wheel before plating,  so yeah, they were pretty shiny by the time they went in the plating tank.  (It was a 3" wide wheel on a pedestal grinder. )

[Plymouthy Adams]

39 minutes ago, DonaldSmith said:

Re: Post 238 and collapsible steering column:  The safety consideration had bothered me on my 47 DeSoto. 

I think I solved the issue when I installed power steering.  I cut the steering column jacket just below the shifting apparatus at the cowl.  I and added a bracket to support the column and a bushing to support the steering shaft.  I cut the shaft and had a splined plug welded in.  Then I added U-joints and D-shafts to connect to the power steering gearbox, whose shaft was not in line with the steering shaft.    It looks lke the U-joints and shafts would now allow for collapse in case of a front-ender.  

If you had the U-joints and shafts in line with the steering gear, I don't know if the assembly would fold in a crash.  There are telescoping shafts available, but I didn't have room for one in my setup.

(I typed this in 16 point font; the better to see the typos before posting.  Usually, I post my message and then I see the glaring typos.)  

 

 

You installed u-joints to couple the old to the new...you do not show any consideration for collision and collapsible shaft for drivers safety...these mechanical links will continue to push the shaft into the passenger compartment....as shown and as I tried to mention above....there is little length between the shifter end of the stock column and the sector to add a sufficient length of collapsible tube as the U-joint alone will eat the space up...

[dale]

Think the poster meant LED tail and brake lights only....Best thing you have done so far is access this site.  My suggestions are...  Replace all the brake lines and hoses....Change brake fluid and if the shoes look good Id leave that go for now.  Posters here have had a lot of problems with replacing the old shoes and getting them to work again.  If or when you get some cash Id put on a scarebird front brake disc setup and whats really nice on my car is I put on a power brake booster with dual master cyls on the firewall.  Almost self bleeding.  Stops with the touch of the toe.  Brakes are the most important thing.  A loose front end can get really expensive but Id say replace the shocks unless they are fairly new.  Old saying " if it aint broke don't fix it "  may apply here too.

[NickPick'sCrew]

6 hours ago, kbuhagiar said:

 

Hello Crew,

 

Nice to see the project progressing so well.

 

Hard to think of any options short of replacement...I know that budget is a primary concern, but unless you have an inside connection to someone with serious fabrication/welding skills, it may be your only option. If you go that route you could probably keep costs down by adapting a column from a wrecking yard. You would need to modify the box end to accept the appropriate u-joint/rag joint. I'm sure someone on board here could chime in with which columns are easiest to adapt to a P15.

 

Good luck!

Thanks Ken,

 

Good to hear from you -- yes, cross country and marching band season slowed him up a bit, but he got a new shot of excitement when he saw his dash pieces back.

[dale]

Didn't know he was so far along...  Great project for him but in the end he could have bought a really nice rust free one ready to drive.. much cheaper.

[NickPick'sCrew]

26 minutes ago, dale said:

Think the poster meant LED tail and brake lights only....Best thing you have done so far is access this site.  My suggestions are...  Replace all the brake lines and hoses....Change brake fluid and if the shoes look good Id leave that go for now.  Posters here have had a lot of problems with replacing the old shoes and getting them to work again.  If or when you get some cash Id put on a scarebird front brake disc setup and whats really nice on my car is I put on a power brake booster with dual master cyls on the firewall.  Almost self bleeding.  Stops with the touch of the toe.  Brakes are the most important thing.  A loose front end can get really expensive but Id say replace the shocks unless they are fairly new.  Old saying " if it aint broke don't fix it "  may apply here too.

Hi Dale,  Thanks for the advice -- I plan on having Nick do the break conversion -- we are looking for every little way to save money, but not on safety items.

 

I'm even making him modify some really old west cost style truck mirrors to help with blind spot issues -- he not happy with the aesthetics but he know I wouldn't fund it otherwise -- if he does it correctly he could take them off when he makes it to a show...

[NickPick'sCrew]

16 minutes ago, dale said:

Didn't know he was so far along...  Great project for him but in the end he could have bought a really nice rust free one ready to drive.. much cheaper.

There is a real budget and its fixed -- but think of it as paying for an education vs. getting the cheapest ride.  Yes, we saw other cleaner cars, daily driver ready -- but he wouldn't have learned nearly as much nor would he have gained nearly as much self confidence in the process.

Edited November 4, 2018 by NickPick'sCrew