Another 230 build thread

[tom'sB2B]

As a side note. I was going to have the machinist set the crank in but he said he needed the flywheel bolts. I frantically searched for them thinking the were lost. After I brought the crank home,  I realized that the fluid drive unit has the bolts that go through the crank flang... sigh.. what a dummy I am!

[Ranger]

I'm following along. Good job!

[tom'sB2B]

So I talked to my machinist. He used a bore gauge to measure the main bearing clearances.

He got

.0020

.0016/.0019

.0019

.0022

I used pastigauge and measured

.0010

.0010

.0015

.0010

what measurements should I believe?

If I believe the bore gauge, and I have too large of a clearance, what should I do?

Try to find bearing shims? Or..?

 

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

as the plasti-gauge will reflect the interference fit of the bearing and the journal, I tend to favor this method.  If you are uncertain, do the second go around with the plasti-guage....if repeated..you are on the money with the factory recommendation.

[kencombs]

Plastigauge results can be skewed by different techniques.  Was the engine horizontal  upside down in a stand?  If so the results should be dead on.  If not, one has to shim adjacent bearings to insure the shaft is fully seated in the top half.  Otherwise the weight of the shaft is being supported on the gauge

 

A bore gauge can be tilted, not exactly in line with the main bore and slightly skew the results also.  That , and the machinist's 'feel' for the mics on the shaft measurement can in a slight difference.  My grandson is a machinist and he and I often differ by .0005-6 due to 'drag feel' when tightening the mics. 

 

But, even if the bore gauge clearances are accurate, they wouldn't bother me at all.  The rule of thumb for years was about .001 clearance per inch of diameter .  And, that was newly assembled, not a wear limit.

Edited June 7, 2018 by kencombs

[thebeebe5]

I think if you run a half to one mil clearance you’re asking for trouble.  If you used the plastigauge correctly and that measurement is accurate i say run it.  One to 1.5 mil is still on the tight end  IMO but will be fine.   I just finished my motor at 2mil clearance and im pretty happy.  

 

What’s your crank run-out (if any)?   

[Dodgeb4ya]

 kencombs... IMO is on the money. I would be happy with either.

My flathead mains always seem to end up around .002" using bore gauges on my rebuilds..

 

[tom'sB2B]

Thank you. That gives me peace of mind. I measured the clearances three times with the engine upside down in the stand and found all main bearings between .001-.0015 . I will stop worrying about it.

[tom'sB2B]

It’s exciting to finally start assembly.

Started on the valves. Lubed all valve and lifter guides. Lubed lifters. Assembled front of cam.

[tom'sB2B]

Cam shaft end play checks out ok

[Don Coatney]

Been there, done that?

 

 

 

[tom'sB2B]

Valves are in.

[tom'sB2B]

Installed crank. Put in top of rear main seal. Put the first three caps on. Checked the end to end play before putting on the rear cap.

[tom'sB2B]

Tightened to 85lbs

 

[thebeebe5]

19 hours ago, tom'sB2B said:

Installed crank. Put in top of rear main seal. Put the first three caps on. Checked the end to end play before putting on the rear cap.

 

A little concerned about the seal lip orientation on your install....   typically  seals install with that lip toward the engine.   I looked at using a neoprene seal on my “time for an overhaul” build and the machinists/builders at our shop concluded that the hole in the block would have to be machined larger to orient the lip inwards to prevent leakage.   I went with a Best Gasket rope seal replacement rather than machine the block to accept the neoprene seal.  

 

Maybe someone that has used a neoprene seal will chime in on their experience?  

 

Edit:   Also, I don’t see threads in your crank flange.  I don’t know the 230, so forgive my ignorance, but do you need to install flywheel/flext plate bolts prior to rear cap installation?  Could very well be different than my 201 which required bolt installation before rear cap installation.  There was just no room otherwise.  

Edited June 17, 2018 by thebeebe5

[tom'sB2B]

Beebe5, thank for checking out my work. I’ve been following your build thread and using it as s guide for my own. You did a amazing job.

As for the flange bolts. My car has fluid drive. The bolts are attached to the fluid drive unit and nuts are then attached behind the flange 

[tom'sB2B]

As for the seal. This being my first build. And no instructions came with the gasket. I assumed that the seal “lip” would be matched with the sloping outside angle of the thrust plate.

Maybe someone else help?

[thebeebe5]

6 minutes ago, tom'sB2B said:

As for the seal. This being my first build. And no instructions came with the gasket. I assumed that the seal “lip” would be matched with the sloping outside angle of the thrust plate.

Maybe someone else help?

 

Yeah, check on that for sure prior to proceeding.  Would be a major PITA to have it installed and find it dumps oil.   The only reference I had was on tod Fitch’s website for the 1928 (i think) flathead and the poster mentioned block machining for seal installation.  That, and the fact that I’ve always been taught to install a single lip seal lip-inward to avoid issues. 

[tom'sB2B]

All the literature on the subject is pretty vague

[thebeebe5]

7 minutes ago, tom'sB2B said:

All the literature on the subject is pretty vague

 

Yeah, that was pre-neoprene and would be a rope seal carrier pictured bolted to the back of the engine. 

[tom'sB2B]

44 minutes ago, thebeebe5 said:

 

Yeah, that was pre-neoprene and would be a rope seal carrier pictured bolted to the back of the engine. 

After reviewing some old posts, I think you are right about it being backwards. Thanks for saving my butt! 

[thebeebe5]

22 minutes ago, tom'sB2B said:

After reviewing some old posts, I think you are right about it being backwards. Thanks for saving my butt! 

 

WAY easier to manage now.   Good luck.  

[Dodgeb4ya]

I questioned that new replacement seal lip facing out too.,....Lip always faces  the oil side.

.I don't know that the new replacement seal has block and cap clearance to turn it 180 degree's?

I don't know what the seal lip contour is either.

1946-48 Dodge had a single lip seal but the lip was a single narrow design...as shown here C/O the 1946-48 factory Dodge Parts book.

 

Edited June 17, 2018 by Dodgeb4ya

[thebeebe5]

2 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

I questioned that new replacement seal lip facing out too.,....Lip always faces  the oil side.

.I don't know that the new replacement seal has block and cap clearance to turn it 180 degree's?

 

 

It does not, DB4U, but a machine shop can open the rear hole so it does.  Not sure how that would impact returning to a rope seal if desired though....  might not make a difference since the seal is external anyway. 

[tom'sB2B]

Back at it. Got the rear main seal flipped around and the crank back in. Got the front plate and crank gear on. Studying up now.. hope to have my rings gapped and pistons in by end of the week ?