Has my 218 ever been rebuilt?

[flyinv55]

I have disassembled my 218 about as far as I can go, leaving the valve guides in for the machine shop to replace for me. The deeper I get into this block the more I have to wonder if this isnt the first time this motor has been rebuilt. There is no ridge on the cylinder walls, the water distribution tube is all in one piece (which totally surprised me), all bearings and surfaces look great so how can I tell if this motor has ever been rebuilt? Thanks in advance to those who have been in my spot before.

[Flatie46]

Just from the info above it would lead me to believe it has.  Or it's really low miles and someone was really fanatical about taking care of the cooling system.

How many miles does it show?  Any info on the cars history?

[flyinv55]

the odo shows 96,5000 but who knows how many times thats rolled over. I thought maybe there might be a stamping on a bearing cap or something that might indicate a previous rebuild. I dont know much about the previous owner and the history of the car other than it has spent the last 15 years in pieces inside a barn in S. Dakota.

[nkeiser]

Measure the cylinder diameter. Stock is 3.25".

[motterso]

Pistons would be stamped with the oversize  (.010, .020, .040 ...) and rod and main bearings would also have numbers corresponding to the undersize of the crank. No numbers on pistons or bearings would mean likely all standard - but measuring will tell you for sure. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

Perhaps, the owner should mic the journals and the bore to make an absolute on the specifications...this is not to say the block may not have had inserts or rings installed in its lifetime but should rule out an over bore and or undercutting of the crank.  Measurement are required at this time.

[flyinv55]

so after cleaning some carbon off the tops of the pistons they are indeed stamped .030. I am thinking I can get away with just having the block washed, new valve guides  and maybe just a new gasket set & put this thing back together. I am not building a show car, just a cruiser. so I take it the cubes are a bit more than 218 with a .030 bore?

[Plymouthy Adams]

14 minutes ago, flyinv55 said:

so after cleaning some carbon off the tops of the pistons they are indeed stamped .030. I am thinking I can get away with just having the block washed, new valve guides  and maybe just a new gasket set & put this thing back together. I am not building a show car, just a cruiser. so I take it the cubes are a bit more than 218 with a .030 bore?

yeah...teensy bit...

[55 Fargo]

1 hour ago, flyinv55 said:

so after cleaning some carbon off the tops of the pistons they are indeed stamped .030. I am thinking I can get away with just having the block washed, new valve guides  and maybe just a new gasket set & put this thing back together. I am not building a show car, just a cruiser. so I take it the cubes are a bit more than 218 with a .030 bore?

Curious what makes you think you need valve guides?

 

[flyinv55]

as a first time engine rebuilder the valves felt a bit sloppy as I pulled them through the guides, I'm hoping when I take the block to the shop for its bath they can probably give me a better idea whether or not it needs guides. Today I got around to cleaning off the main bearings and there is a stamp U .010, the pistons are stamped .030, the water distribution tube came out easily and intact and there is absolutely no ridge on the cylinder walls. It's clear to me I am not the first to have this engine apart and I kind of wished I had just started it up before I took it apart but I guess you dont know for sure what you have until you get it all apart. I sure appreciate the knowledge in this forum.

[55 Fargo]

14 minutes ago, flyinv55 said:

as a first time engine rebuilder the valves felt a bit sloppy as I pulled them through the guides, I'm hoping when I take the block to the shop for its bath they can probably give me a better idea whether or not it needs guides. Today I got around to cleaning off the main bearings and there is a stamp U .010, the pistons are stamped .030, the water distribution tube came out easily and intact and there is absolutely no ridge on the cylinder walls. It's clear to me I am not the first to have this engine apart and I kind of wished I had just started it up before I took it apart but I guess you dont know for sure what you have until you get it all apart. I sure appreciate the knowledge in this forum.

Its not too late clean her up, new gaskets seals.

Maybe light honing if cyls if pistons out and new rings.

Measure everything to be sure if apart

[Dartgame]

I think since you are this far into it - go ahead and hot tank the hard parts (crank, valve train parts, and block head etc.) get the valve guides replaced, and valve job and then reassemble using the 30 over pistons and the crank bearings, assuming you kept all that stuff in their original orientation. I'd throw new rings in after a light honing of the cylinders as 55 fargo suggests. You might want to shave the head to bring up compression - figure that sticks in my mind is 0.090 " for an uncut 218 head, but you should do your own research to verify. Someone on the site figured out what the standard uncut head thickness should be so you can make a judgement about whether the head has been significantly cut previously. Its best to CC the heads and block and do a calculation to accurately figure out the comp ratio. and how much to shave. Ideally 8:1 is your target unless someone thinks otherwise. 

[greg g]

2 inches from where the head bolt seats to the flat underside of the head. 

[kencombs]

On 1/24/2018 at 5:18 PM, Dartgame said:

I think since you are this far into it - go ahead and hot tank the hard parts (crank, valve train parts, and block head etc.) get the valve guides replaced, and valve job and then reassemble using the 30 over pistons and the crank bearings, assuming you kept all that stuff in their original orientation. I'd throw new rings in after a light honing of the cylinders as 55 fargo suggests. You might want to shave the head to bring up compression - figure that sticks in my mind is 0.090 " for an uncut 218 head, but you should do your own research to verify. Someone on the site figured out what the standard uncut head thickness should be so you can make a judgement about whether the head has been significantly cut previously. Its best to CC the heads and block and do a calculation to accurately figure out the comp ratio. and how much to shave. Ideally 8:1 is your target unless someone thinks otherwise. 

I agree with all the above, except hot tanking the block.  Unless the cam bearing are worn, or the block really dirty, I'd just wash it well.  Solvent first, flush all passages, soapy water finish and rinse well.  Don't forget to hone first and oil cylinders when done.

 

I say this because hot tanking will most likely ruin the cam bearings, adding to the overall cost of the project.  Given this was a past rebuild, they are probably good, but measurement will tell for sure.

 

Last item:  I'd also carefully check the valve guides before replacing.  Again, with it's history likely not needed.

Edited January 29, 2018 by kencombs

[Dartgame]

Good point, forgot about the cam bearings - they’ll get wasted if you hot tank the block.

[thebeebe5]

Cam bearings are cheap.   Like, $25/set.  Install shouldn't be too time consuming either.   I installed mine in under an hour no issues. 

 

And as far as valve guides go, if they felt sloppy on disassembly it's likely they're worn out. Mic the stems and guide bores.  if there's more than 0.003" I'd see about having silicone bronze liners put in at a machine shop.   No need to remove the whole guide.  Some good cleaning, judicious parts replacement and careful attention while it's apart now will go a long way....

[kencombs]

On 1/29/2018 at 11:18 AM, thebeebe5 said:

Cam bearings are cheap.   Like, $25/set.  Install shouldn't be too time consuming either.   I installed mine in under an hour no issues. 

That's true, I just like to save a buck when I can, so I'd prefer not to replace the bearings and pay to have the block vatted.  Especially since I've got to reclean and verify all passages are clear before assembly anyway.  And, I don't like to install cam bearings without the proper driver tool.  and I sold mine a few years back when I thought I'd never need it again.  It can be done without it, I just don't like to.

On 1/29/2018 at 11:18 AM, thebeebe5 said:

 

And as far as valve guides go, if they felt sloppy on disassembly it's likely they're worn out. Mic the stems and guide bores.  if there's more than 0.003" I'd see about having silicone bronze liners put in at a machine shop.

 

Yes the liners work well, but they are more expensive that new guides and the guides are easy to remove install in your shop.  Again saving labor cost.

 

  No need to remove the whole guide.  Some good cleaning, judicious parts replacement and careful attention while it's apart now will go a long way....