Dry oil canister. Help.

[B1B Keven]

Motor will start cold with 30 lbs of oil pressure. As you watch the gauge, it drops to just above zero within seconds (10-15).

Revving the motor takes it back up to 30 then drops again at idle.

I've pulled the lines going to and from the canister and they're fine. Also pulled out the check valve ( not stuck ).

Thoughts?

[desoto1939]

Can you hook up a modern oil guage to see what presure you are getting? Maybe the oil gage is not working correctly. Could pickup an oil gage at any motor parts store. Would be cheaper than trying to test with a NOS unit.  Just a thought.

 

The title of the lisiting says Dry Oil canester . So are you getting oil flow into the canaster or not.  Are there any kinks in the metal oil line that goes to the oil pressure gage?

Rich Hartung 

Edited September 12, 2017 by desoto1939

[Don Coatney]

.....

[JPP]

Kevin,  Is your system completely bleed of air between gauge and engine?  As oil is uncompressible while air gives differnt reading.  I ran the truck with a valve at the gauge interface and simple held it well above the engine and bleed it while the engin idled.  my truck has 100 psi compression and 40 psi at idle.  I also noticed that if my oil level was low, you would see low reading at idle.  Just my thoughts.  

[B1B Keven]

Canister is dry.

I'll try bleeding the oil gauge line.

[P15-D24]

When you say canister, you mean the bypass oil filter?

Is the feed line hooked up correctly to the oil gallery supply line?  

Is the supply line correctly plumbed to the inlet side of the oil filter? 

[JPP]

Take the filter out during this stage, makes life easier.  the oil resevoir will fill faster and things will stabilize, once your ready for the road install filter element into housing because at that point you will know all things are working.  

[B1B Keven]

Pulled out the canister. The fitting and tube at the bottom were plugged with gasket or gasket making material.

Think I need to pull the pan off now.

Yes, everything is plumbed correctly.

[Los_Control]

Hope you show some photos of what you find in the pan. I have heard some real horror stories of the amount of sludge.

I guess when they sleep for many years the sludge and oil on the bottom of the pan gets nasty. I also need to pull the pan on mine, been sitting for 39 years.

[johnsartain]

One old engine I tore down for some of my parts had really thick sludge for oil. There is no telling how long it sat in the back of the truck I had bought. The only rust in the engine was the valve stems and the guides and 2 cylinders that were  open to the elements. There was a bit in the cylinders but mostly caked on sludge and carbon. It was so nasty, I had a time tearing it down, it took 2 days and a 20 ton press to press the pistons out. 

[B1B Keven]

Question. With the oil filter out I cranked the motor over. The canister filled from the bottom up. Shouldn't it have filled from the top down?

Also, the line coming out of the bottom of the canister was plugged where the line screws in. Like the crud had been pushed up toward the canister?

Edited September 14, 2017 by B1B Keven

[Los_Control]

[Merle Coggins]

It depends on the filter design. Some fill near the top and flow out the bottom. Some fill from the center, bottom port, and return near the top. Mine is clearly marked IN at the bottom and OUT at the upper port. 

[B1B Keven]

1 hour ago, Merle Coggins said:

It depends on the filter design. Some fill near the top and flow out the bottom. Some fill from the center, bottom port, and return near the top. Mine is clearly marked IN at the bottom and OUT at the upper port. 

Thanks Merle. I'll look at it. The way it was plugged suggested that there was quite a bit of pressure coming up the bottom feeder line.

[johnsartain]

Just FYI, mine is marked with in on the side and out on the bottom. It is the type as pictured below...

[Merle Coggins]

From what I've seen and learned over the years about filters, most paper fiber filters flow oil from the outside-in to use the more open side of the paper pleats. So, if your canister is marked IN at the upper side port that would indicate that it uses a paper fiber pleated filter. I believe there were a couple different ones used depending on size and filter manufacturer. I don't have, nor have I studied, this type of filter canister.

My filter, and some others, that use the sock type filter insert work from Inside-out. I've studied my Deluxe Model JC Filter, with markings IN at the bottom center, and OUT at the upper side. It is clearly stamped on the cover to use a JC filter cartridge. The Deluxe JC crosses to Napa's 1011, Wix 51011, or Baldwin JC405. (I prefer the Baldwin cartridge due to a better fit in my experience, as I've stated on this forum several times.) The center tube, where the IN port feeds, has a couple of holes to distribute oil into the center of the filter element. The oil will then migrate through the filter media and pool in the top, above the perforated dome. The OUT port is above this perforated dome so that when the oil reaches that level, or above, it will flow out and back to the sump.

From that I've seen, this is the "Heavy Duty" filter offered through Mopar, or aftermarket suppliers. I found it on eBay. My truck didn't have an oil filter when I got it. 

Here you can see that the upper port is plumbed to the bottom, drain, port on the block

Edited September 15, 2017 by Merle Coggins

[B1B Keven]

My setup is exactly like yours Merle. I'm using a Wix 51011 sock filter. So the flow of oil is into the bottom of the canister, through the filter and out the top line. Correct?

With all the crap I cleaned out of the fitting at the bottom of the canister, I bet I have a partially clogged pick up in the pan.

[johnsartain]

Keven, That would make me question how much of the "crap" is also in the main oil gallery which also feeds the crank journals. I could be time for a good flush of the oiling system. I can see where a sock that was allowed to get extra dirty could gather a lot of "crap" in the oil inlet if the oil flow was restricted. I wonder how difficult it may be to force oil  or whatever through the system just to make sure everything is lubricating correctly. I just rebuilt mine, ran brushes through the gallery and oil passages, but you always wonder if you missed something. The only thing I could think of doing was to take a large syringe and for oil through the gallery. I did this after assembly to try to make sure  oil got to all the journals. I was satisfied when I saw that the Assembly lube was forced out of the hole on the top of the connecting rod by oil. After spending 3 grand on building a engine it would be a shame for oiling to fail on startup. Any better ideas?

[B1B Keven]

Well, this is interesting. I hope it's the problem. There was even a part of the safety seal from an oil can inside. Bottom of the oil pan had about an 1/8" of crud in it.

I hit everything with compressed air and nothing else came out. Fingers crossed.

 

Edited September 29, 2017 by B1B Keven

[B1B Keven]

Well, that helped. Consistent 15 lbs at idle and 40 when I rev it. Maybe a new oil pump? We'll see.

[Jeff Balazs]

Keven;

This is just a suggestion based on my experiences with reviving one of these engines' You could try adding a pint of MMO and running it for a little while. Some are afraid of loosening up crud in the engine........but I figured this would actually help. And it really has for my engine. I wish I would have done it sooner.

Reviving one of these old engines vs rebuilding is I think always a bit of a gamble. You never really know what is going to happen. MMO acts a bit like a solvent and helps flush junk out. Doing this has worked out well for me.........might do the same for you?

Jeff

[B1B Keven]

Good thought Jeff, thanks. Or maybe some Rislone.

[johnsartain]

Here is something I thought odd, but I may be useful to you. In a reprint of the original B2B drivers manual, page 17 reads, 

"If the truck is used on long hauls or for heavy duty service, use no.10W engine oil blended with 10% colorless refined kerosene. I'm not sure how this would help or even be classified for heavy duty use but I'm sure it could definitely  be useful for purging out oil ways and the oil gallery, maybe even wash crud from the oil sump."

Edited October 7, 2017 by johnsartain

[Jeff Balazs]

12 hours ago, johnsartain said:

Here is something I thought odd, but I may be useful to you. In a reprint of the original B2B drivers manual, page 17 reads, 

"If the truck is used on long hauls or for heavy duty service, use no.10W engine oil blended with 10% colorless refined kerosene. I'm not sure how this would help or even be classified for heavy duty use but I'm sure it could definitely  be useful for purging out oil ways and the oil gallery, maybe even wash crud from the oil sump."

Yep. All I can say is that there is a lot of spots in these old engines for crud or sludge to hide. Then you can add in the unknowns regarding the maintenance or lack there of. What we are left with is the definition of a gamble. I wasn't about to run mine without pulling the head, inspection covers and oil pan. Everything got cleaned up as best I could. Then frequent oil changes. Even with that there was stuff hiding in it. Didn't really start running like it should until a few treatments with MMO. I never thought it would work out as well as it has. Made me a believer....at least in this application.

Jeff