Rustoleum Troubles

[Bingster]

I used an HVLP gun to spray a trailer I have with Rustoleum.  I had a heck of a time to get it to level out.  I thinned it with acetone per directions but was adding so much that I was afraid I'd be spraying a translucent mixture.  Anyway, I double coated and laid it on thick. It didn't run but it gave a slightly orange peel effect, not a dry effect, but it just didn't level out well.

I question the use of acetone because it flashes so quickly.  I needed more wet time.  I'm unfamiliar to Rustoleum except for the rattle cans, and honestly, they have a finer, smoother mist of spray than I did.  It was obviously something I was doing wrong. Big compressor so air wasn't the problem.  Maybe my gun was tip was the wrong size. 1.7    

[knuckleharley]

8 minutes ago, Bingster said:

I used an HVLP gun to spray a trailer I have with Rustoleum.  I had a heck of a time to get it to level out.  I thinned it with acetone per directions but was adding so much that I was afraid I'd be spraying a translucent mixture.  Anyway, I double coated and laid it on thick. It didn't run but it gave a slightly orange peel effect, not a dry effect, but it just didn't level out well.

I question the use of acetone because it flashes so quickly.  I needed more wet time.  I'm unfamiliar to Rustoleum except for the rattle cans, and honestly, they have a finer, smoother mist of spray than I did.  It was obviously something I was doing wrong. Big compressor so air wasn't the problem.  Maybe my gun was tip was the wrong size. 1.7    

As they say on some of the AOL boards,I am watching this one with "Baited breath".

[P15-D24]

First I think they recommend thinning with something other than acetone, like their own branded thinner. I think I have used a 1.8 tip with decent results. Also might look at Zero Rust paint, I've had really good luck on my trailer that gets some salt water exposure. Had better luck spraying ZR than RustO and it seemed to last longer. Like RustO you need to use a large tip with ZR.

[55 Fargo]

Depending on the spraygun, tip size, ambient temps.

I reduce this type of paint fairly thin, then shoot on a mist coat or a light coat then 2 heavier coats.

The orange peel is the paint is thick, or your gun setting not right.

Use a generic enamel hardener  too, dries and cures much much faster.

Use Xylene, or Dupli Color medium speed reducer.

1.7 tip is a cannon, and meant for heavier paints, primers etc.

I would use a 1.4 or 1.5 tip, reduced approximately 20-30 % with 10 % hardener......

[55 Fargo]

17 minutes ago, P15-D24 said:

First I think they recommend thinning with something other than acetone, like their own branded thinner. I think I have used a 1.8 tip with decent results. Also might look at Zero Rust paint, I've had really good luck on my trailer that gets some salt water exposure. Had better luck spraying ZR than RustO and it seemed to last longer. Like RustO you need to use a large tip with ZR.

Rustoleum Corp usually recommends Acetone to 10% as a reducer, but again other solvents including plain old stoddard solvents like mineral spirits could be used, but is a super cold solvent compared to Acetone.

I personally like Xylene with alkyd synthetic enamels and works werlll if the right mix is attained and with the correct spraygun and its' setting..

Zero Rust is a decent  quality enamel based paint, and a lot cheaper than POR 15 which is a moisture cure urethane based coating..

Edited August 9, 2017 by 55 Fargo Spitfire

[steveplym]

I used the Satin Black and sprayed it with success.  It lays on thick and orange peely, but once it dries overnight, it lays down nicely.  Haven't sprayed the gloss colors, so not sure how you would get it right. 

[55 Fargo]

2 minutes ago, steveplym said:

I used the Satin Black and sprayed it with success.  It lays on thick and orange peely, but once it dries overnight, it lays down nicely.  Haven't sprayed the gloss colors, so not sure how you would get it right. 

Its amazing sometimes, especially with a flatter sheen, the paint levels out and lays down once drying, and the slower it dries the more it can level.

Isn't it you that was 1 of my coaches way back with spray painting...

[steveplym]

Yep pretty sure that was me.  I painted a fulton sunvisor with satin black, when I walked out of the garage I figured I'd be stripping that visor back down and repainting, as it was covered in orange peel.  next morning it was satin black and no imperfections.  Suprised me. 

Edited August 9, 2017 by steveplym

[Bingster]

I'd like to be surprised like that!

[Dartgame]

Stoddard solvent (paint thinner) or mineral spirit is what Rustoleum contains. It's a slow evaporating solvent as pointed out above. You might try lacquer thinner or xylene as mentioned above. Acetone's flash point is what caused the orange peel. It evaporates incredibly fast.

[Plymouthy Adams]

for best results thinning Rustoleum I find nothing surpasses the good ole enamel reducer and the higher the grade the better which usually means a grade better than wash up solvent,  use it as you would for mixing higher grades of top coat paints...these are usually available in slow, medium or fast evaporation rates...use per you local conditions....

second, just because it says HVLP on the label does not automatically make it a true HVLP gun....hopefully you got some instruction booklet for setting your gun up for optimum use.....a true HVLP will not bust 10 PSI nozzle when in use and this prevents a host of problems...viscosity is everything...

[Bingster]

The trailer is finished and it came out very nice in spite of things. I'm selling it so I'm not too particular.  This HVLP gun I bought years ago for wood cabinet work.  I just wanted to see what it would do with "real paint" on steel and not thinned lacquer and such.  It is rated about 21 PSI at the gun.  I'm retiring it from automotive work. It will be some time before until I'll be painting Carlo.  I'm concentrating on the engine right now.

[Plymouthy Adams]

21 PSI sounds correct for a true HVLP to achieve 10 PSI at the nozzle......spray painting is best described as a controlled run....viscosity, speed and flow all got to be right...its fun, its aggravating...it beats laying out thousands for someone else to screw it up

[Bingster]

Got that right!!  I'd rather screw it up myself for free.

[greg g]

I used the ace hrdw brand XO Rust  on my Studebaker both sprayed and rolled on.  I did about 70 / 30 paint to mineral spirits.  I added 2 ounces of TSC implement paint hardener and one ounce of flattener to each pot of paint.  One a dark brown the other a tan.  I used the flattener cuz I wasn't fussy with the body work.  I got pretty much the look I wanted.

[55 Fargo]

On 8/14/2017 at 2:04 PM, Dartgame said:

Stoddard solvent (paint thinner) or mineral spirit is what Rustoleum contains. It's a slow evaporating solvent as pointed out above. You might try lacquer thinner or xylene as mentioned above. Acetone's flash point is what caused the orange peel. It evaporates incredibly fast.

Acetone is fine in cooler temps, and most times peel is paint too thick or improper settings and techniques used.

Yes Rustoleum brush on is Stoddard solvent based for the most part, while aerosols are a combinations of other, such as xylene toluene etc.

The paint with acetone flashing leaving peel could be a result of the paint not leveling, but dry spray is a real problem with super fast solvents and lack of material...

I would not vote for lacquer thinner, but xylene is a good all around for this purpose, I have even used urethane based medium speed reducer too.

I personally would not elect to use Mineral Spirits as a thinner unless, it was super hot, or I had no choice, just too damn slow...

 

Edited April 25, 2018 by 55 Fargo Spitfire

[55 Fargo]

I painted this off topic car today for someone.

They did the prep and I suspect the primers were not fully cured or something, as it was a bit fussy.

They wanted this car all one color, they bought industrial urethane enhanced alkyd enamel, and had it tinted.

I added hardener and xylene it went on nice, a little dry spray but not bad for a bush road paint job, yes "Roadkill" style....

 

 

Edited April 25, 2018 by 55 Fargo Spitfire

[55 Fargo]

Update:

So I did paint my Sons off topic car with a straight enamel (synthetic/alkyd) enamel approximately 3 weeks ago, but there was too much peel in it, cut and polish did not work as well as expected either.

So i am wet sanding it down and reshooting the paint ,  this paint sanded like a dream, the brand is Home Hardware Rust Coat Clear Base tinted to the color of choice, its a urethane fortified resin in this blend, dries fairly quick.

I have read many many posts on this and other forum where Americans using Rustoleum, where it never dries, does not level out, stays sticky and tacky. I have used Rustoleum only a few times, we have Tremclad alkyd enamel, now owned by the Rustoleum Corp, so not sure if they are the same formulas or not...

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2018 by 55 Fargo Spitfire

[MackTheFinger]

I've painted LOTS of cars and motorcycles over the last 40 something years. One of the things I learned early on is to not skimp on material. It makes the job go easier, look better, and last longer. Professional shops use premium quality material for a reason. I'm not saying you can't turn out a decent job with inexpensive paint but I find it easier to use higher quality material. 

[55 Fargo]

11 minutes ago, MackTheFinger said:

I've painted LOTS of cars and motorcycles over the last 40 something years. One of the things I learned early on is to not skimp on material. It makes the job go easier, look better, and last longer. Professional shops use premium quality material for a reason. I'm not saying you can't turn out a decent job with inexpensive paint but I find it easier to use higher quality material. 

yes, but the thread is dedicated to Rustoleum aka alkyd and synthetic enamel paints.

 The thread is not necessarily suggesting, endorsing the product, nor is it refuting the quality or benefits of more expensive materials from the Autobody Industry. Personally don\t care for the BC/CC look, still like 1 stage paints, no arguing that a major products 1 stage Urethane topcoats is a step up from Rustoleum.

Poster discussed his issues with the Rustoleum, and posts from me are discussing suggestions and solutions to it's use and limitations.

Rustoleum is nothing more than another type of straight enamel like old Dupont Dulux, old school old technology, simple and cheap...

[MackTheFinger]

I shot Dulux years ago. Centari was my favorite, took care of most of the problems the earlier enamels. Not really a big fan of the look of bc/cc either but that's what we have now. I've painted construction equipment with both Rustoleum and XO Rust thinned with mineral spirits. I don't know the ratio, it was always easy to tell with single-stage from how it slides off the stick. 1.7 tip should work. Maybe the gun needs a real good cleaning, most of them do; or the adjustments need tweaking. Don't get too hung up on what the air pressure gauge says, one of the best painters I ever saw didn't use one; just kinked the hose until he got what he wanted. Practice makes perfect. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

2 minutes ago, MackTheFinger said:

I shot Dulux years ago. Centari was my favorite, took care of most of the problems the earlier enamels. Not really a big fan of the look of bc/cc either but that's what we have now. I've painted construction equipment with both Rustoleum and XO Rust thinned with mineral spirits. I don't know the ratio, it was always easy to tell with single-stage from how it slides off the stick. 1.7 tip should work. Maybe the gun needs a real good cleaning, most of them do; or the adjustments need tweaking. Don't get too hung up on what the air pressure gauge says, one of the best painters I ever saw didn't use one; just kinked the hose until he got what he wanted. Practice makes perfect. 

kinked the hose....regulators are cheap and effective and consistent...no worries of coming in kinked and them whamo...a free flood on one panel compared to medium wet on the other....no not worth the risk to alter the hose physically....no matter what you painting..if it is worth mixing the paint, it is worth shooting it properly....a paint job is best described as a "controlled run"

[knuckleharley]

48 minutes ago, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

yes, but the thread is dedicated to Rustoleum aka alkyd and synthetic enamel paints.

 The thread is not necessarily suggesting, endorsing the product, nor is it refuting the quality or benefits of more expensive materials from the Autobody Industry. Personally don\t care for the BC/CC look, still like 1 stage paints, no arguing that a major products 1 stage Urethane topcoats is a step up from Rustoleum.

Poster discussed his issues with the Rustoleum, and posts from me are discussing suggestions and solutions to it's use and limitations.

Rustoleum is nothing more than another type of straight enamel like old Dupont Dulux, old school old technology, simple and cheap...

Simple and cheap might as well be my middle names.

[55 Fargo]

33 minutes ago, MackTheFinger said:

I shot Dulux years ago. Centari was my favorite, took care of most of the problems the earlier enamels. Not really a big fan of the look of bc/cc either but that's what we have now. I've painted construction equipment with both Rustoleum and XO Rust thinned with mineral spirits. I don't know the ratio, it was always easy to tell with single-stage from how it slides off the stick. 1.7 tip should work. Maybe the gun needs a real good cleaning, most of them do; or the adjustments need tweaking. Don't get too hung up on what the air pressure gauge says, one of the best painters I ever saw didn't use one; just kinked the hose until he got what he wanted. Practice makes perfect. 

Yah bigger tips are fine with the heavy enamels. Binks model 7 , great gun for this type of stuff, I am using a gravity feed conventional gun with a 1.5 tip, so thinned fairly well, air at 45-50 psi.

Centari is and was good paint in my books. I can still buy Dupont Nason line Acrylic Enamel, sold only to those not in body shop industry but for farm use, but it ain't cheap all of a sudden either...

I use both xylene and/or acetone, no mineral spirits unless super hot outside.

I also add in hardener makes a world of difference.

If we lived state side, would not play around with this stuff as much and would buy from TCP global or Trinity but getting that stuff here is a bit pricey, dollar exchange, shipping and brokerage fees....

Edited September 27, 2017 by 55 Fargo Spitfire

[Desotodav]

Quite an interesting colour for an old RX7. I have a mate here in Oz with 6 of them, but none in that shade!