Brent B3B Posted May 22, 2017 Report Posted May 22, 2017 working on my B4d (230) I bought new valves, had the old springs tested @ 95lbs and decided/ advised to buy another new one. I found a guy that had a NOS "gray" one to compare the LB to my old set, it tested 85lbs! so I bought a brand new set (USA made) they test 105lbs @ 1-3/8" compressed (book calls for 107- 115lbs) so, the question is, are the springs for the cars, the same as the trucks? reason I ask is in the shop manual of the place where I bought the "NOS" gray/ silver one it mentions different colors as where my truck shop manual does not. AND the car manual specifies 40lbs- 45lbs at 1-3/4" where the truck manual is 105-115 at 1-3/8" as a side note, with the .3000 shims will bump my old springs up to 100lbs Quote
Brent B3B Posted May 22, 2017 Author Report Posted May 22, 2017 second subject, guides, same truck anyone know why the guides need to be "flipped" per intake or exhaust valve like the manual says? working on my truck I noticed there is a tapered end and the counter bore end and someone installed all of them with the taper down (counter bore up) guess on the bright side at least half are pointed the right direction Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted May 22, 2017 Report Posted May 22, 2017 orientation of the valve guides provides for better heat shielding........just follow the book...lol as for the spring rating, gain follow your book....the trucks of severe duty normally got a sodium filled valves...specs would be for that application I would presume...I believe I posted the info for the car valve spring color and rate....sorry if I have mislead you in your rebuild here.....I would defer to the actual shop book for the dodge, not so much an aftermarket at this time just to bounce their rates to see if 'ballpark' 1 Quote
Brent B3B Posted May 23, 2017 Author Report Posted May 23, 2017 Thanks PA! the orientation explanation makes sense, (wish the book spelled it out like that) I can see WHY they installed them all the same way, just wasn't sure if it was a big deal. you didn't mislead me. just want to make sure I have the correct part for my application. Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted May 23, 2017 Report Posted May 23, 2017 If one end of the spring is wound tighter (progressive wound) install that end to the head or block.... not to the Valve spring retainer end. 1 Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted May 23, 2017 Report Posted May 23, 2017 any advice for people who are wound tight but less on the progressive side of life? 1 Quote
Brent B3B Posted May 23, 2017 Author Report Posted May 23, 2017 3 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said: If one end of the spring is wound tighter (progressive wound) install that end to the head or block.... not to the Valve spring retainer end. Will do! I saw that in the truck shop manual. but, where I picked up that gray NOS spring his "Plymouth" book said they could be installed either way...... Quote
pflaming Posted May 23, 2017 Report Posted May 23, 2017 " . . . any advice for people who are wound tight but less on the progressive side of life?" PA, yes, but then that response would be, political, or religious, or genetic and any of these three will get me 30 days! LOL 2 Quote
John-T-53 Posted May 23, 2017 Report Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) When you install new guides, you have to recut the seats. Also, make sure your clearance between the valve stem and guides is within spec. Loose...and it will smoke! Edited May 23, 2017 by John-T-53 4 Quote
Brent B3B Posted May 25, 2017 Author Report Posted May 25, 2017 On 5/23/2017 at 10:56 AM, John-T-53 said: When you install new guides, you have to recut the seats. Also, make sure your clearance between the valve stem and guides is within spec. Loose...and it will smoke! i agree (because i have been told that before) but for the life of me can't wrap my brain around why. as it sits, the half the guides were put in upside down and it ran. One intake has noticeable "side to side" slop. i thought if i installed by the depth recommended in the book it would be all good...... i must be thrown off by the term "guide" frustrating! guess i'll look into yanking it and having it redone. my $300. fix just turned into 3K Thanks anyway guys for the help Quote
JBNeal Posted May 25, 2017 Report Posted May 25, 2017 If the valves have been rattling around, the valve seat angle becomes distorted and they will not seal properly... loose and oil will be drawn into the combustion chamber on the intake stroke. I hand lapped my valves with the suction cup on a stick and valve grind compound... it took awhile, but I developed a feel for when the valves and seats were in full contact 1 Quote
Brent B3B Posted June 19, 2017 Author Report Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) The book says to remove the tappet assemblies before removing the valve guides but, I was able to remove the guides with the motor in the truck and the tappet assemblies in place Edited June 20, 2017 by Brent B3B 2 Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted June 20, 2017 Report Posted June 20, 2017 The tappet assemblies the book is referring to are only on the H-Duty 30" long truck engines and are removable as an assembly holding six lifters each.. The 23" and 25" engines do not have removable lifter assemblies as you know. 2 Quote
John-T-53 Posted June 20, 2017 Report Posted June 20, 2017 22 hours ago, Brent B3B said: The book says to remove the tappet assemblies before removing the valve guides but, I was able to remove the guides with the motor in the truck and the tappet assemblies in place Yup, breaking the guides in half is the way to get 'em out. You can just hit 'em with a cold chisel and a hammer and they'll snap. But - I like your surgical method with the cutting tool! 3 Quote
Brent B3B Posted June 26, 2017 Author Report Posted June 26, 2017 On 6/20/2017 at 11:05 AM, John-T-53 said: Yup, breaking the guides in half is the way to get 'em out. You can just hit 'em with a cold chisel and a hammer and they'll snap. But - I like your surgical method with the cutting tool! thanks, It was difficult with the motor in the truck, the wheel hub in my chest, maneuvering around the shock and trying not to slip and hit the tappets so I cheated Quote
Brent B3B Posted June 26, 2017 Author Report Posted June 26, 2017 On 6/19/2017 at 6:34 PM, Dodgeb4ya said: The tappet assemblies the book is referring to are only on the H-Duty 30" long truck engines and are removable as an assembly holding six lifters each.. The 23" and 25" engines do not have removable lifter assemblies as you know. are the tappet adjusting nuts removable on the 23" and 25" I might have mentioned they are EXTREMLY tight, and I was thinking about removing the nuts and try and clean them up. but I don't want to bugger them up further or not be able to reassemble them Quote
John-T-53 Posted June 26, 2017 Report Posted June 26, 2017 I'd just leave 'em in place, they don't need any special care unless the top surface is damaged (which if it is that means you have bigger issues). I do think they come all the way off, but they will get looser the more you turn them. You want them tight. Quote
Brent B3B Posted June 26, 2017 Author Report Posted June 26, 2017 1 hour ago, John-T-53 said: I'd just leave 'em in place, they don't need any special care unless the top surface is damaged (which if it is that means you have bigger issues). I do think they come all the way off, but they will get looser the more you turn them. You want them tight. I would not even consider removing them BUT, they are SO tight, it is difficult turning them with an open ended wrench and the "shoulders" are starting to round on one. I could use the boxed end to turn them, but it isn't very convenient and hard to do with the motor running Quote
JBNeal Posted June 26, 2017 Report Posted June 26, 2017 FWIW I recently tried the candle wax trick on The Blue Bomber's downpipe flange bolts before upgrading to the 4" exhaust...after the 1 hr drive back from work, I would apply the wax til it ran off the flange, did that for over a week...I was pleasantly surprised when not only did they back out, but they didn't even squeak a peep...totes amazeballs Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted June 27, 2017 Report Posted June 27, 2017 Yes the screw can be removed....... What it looks like..... 4 Quote
John-T-53 Posted June 27, 2017 Report Posted June 27, 2017 AH so that's how they designed the non-spinning feature. I had thought it was a deformation on something all this time, like on rocker stud nuts. Chrysler engineers. Quote
Brent B3B Posted July 30, 2017 Author Report Posted July 30, 2017 had a guy from a local machine shop make a "house call" and ground the seats this last Wednesday after work. I do love the look of new valves 3 Quote
Brent B3B Posted July 30, 2017 Author Report Posted July 30, 2017 I removed and cleaned up the adjuster screws with very little improvement. considering grinding the valve stems to gain the difference 1 Quote
Bobacuda Posted July 31, 2017 Report Posted July 31, 2017 Good thing you bought a running truck. I can't imagine what all you would have done to one that did not run 1 Quote
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