front crankshaft bolt size

[40plyguy]

 Could anyone tell me what size socket will remove the front crankshaft bolt on my 40 Ply flathead 6? ( I know, the one that fits).......Anyway, trying to free up a frozen engine still in the car. I can't see the bolt very well because it's so close to the rad. The heads off the eng and I've been soaking the cyls and valve train the past few months and would like to see if  it will start turning a little. Thanks much

[knuckleharley]

Not trying to be a wiseguy,but you really need to take the radiator out before trying this. If you don't,you will be losing skin and blood from the radiator fins,and you will also be banging the radiator up and because it is old and brittle,that could prove costly.

Do yourself a favor and take the radiator out so you can see what you are doing and so you don't bleed all over your shop floor.

[greg g]

1 3/8 or 1 13/16 ring a bell from my p 15.  Not certain if earlier are the same.

 

[Andydodge]

On my 1941 Plymouth the crank "bolt" had the handcrank thing included on the bolt head and was 1 13/16th.......just checked as I had to purchase a socket specifically to fit it......removed the radiator as suggested and used a block of wood to wedge between the pulley and chassis to stop the engine turning over then used it on the other side of the pulley when tightening the bolt.........welcome from Oz.......btw Gregs.suggestion re 2 different sizes is because it may only use a normal bolt if someone has replaced the crankhandle spiggotted bolt with a normal bolt which were a smaller size........andyd 

Edited March 8, 2017 by Andydodge

[Dodgeb4ya]

There are a couple sizes and styles....

[Don Coatney]

I used a large adjustable wrench.

[40plyguy]

Thanks for the info. I have some very shallow sockets and hopefully with a long handle, flex head ratchet might be able to accomplish what I want to. I just want to see if the engine will start to turn a little. I was hoping to keep the rad and front end in place for now because the car may have to be moved soon. Anyway, thanks again.

[Niel Hoback]

Take the clutch cover off and pry the flywheel around with a big screwdriver.

[Dodgeb4ya]

The right way is as stated above... turn the flywheel with a screw driver after removing the dust cover.. 5 times move turning leverage than turning the crank nut!

[40plyguy]

Not sure why I didn't consider doing that as I've done it many times before on engines. Old age is taking it's toll I guess.Thanks for the info to all.

[knuckleharley]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SNAP-ON-FLYWHEEL-TURNER-A144-/162417629316?_trksid=p2385738.m2548.l4275

 

On 3/8/2017 at 6:05 PM, Niel Hoback said:

Take the clutch cover off and pry the flywheel around with a big screwdriver.

Snap-Off makes a tool for turning flywheels. I bought one years ago because my old F-500 had some teeth missing on the flywheel,and I got tired of banging my fingers up when the screwdriver slipped.  Has a curved "tooth" top and bottom,and the bottom one is spring-loaded. You hook the top "tooth" on a flywheel tooth,pull back the bottom "tooth" on the tool and let it hook,then pull on the handle,secure in the knowledge it's not going to slip off.

Not worth buying new if you are just turning one engine,but definitely worth the money when you have to crawl under one on the wet ground to spin a flywheel far enough for the starter drive to grab.

Mine is a little fancier than the one shown on ebay,but it was bought in the 80's. Have no idea where it is right at this moment,so I can't take a photo of it.

BTW,I know this will make some people cringe,but I have been known to use the starter to unstick engines once I have oil leaking past the rings. You just have to be VERY careful to only "bump it" until it breaks free,

 

Edited March 9, 2017 by knuckleharley

[Dodgeb4ya]

15 minutes ago, knuckleharley said:

 

 

Edited March 10, 2017 by Dodgeb4ya

[Dodgeb4ya]

I also usually try a quick blip of the starter just to see if the fan will even begin to move before wasting much time pulling the clutch cover.

I know I will go to Mopar hell for it but someone needs to be the welcome greeter there.

[Andydodge]

Well........I DID say welcome to him, even if its from downunder.........lol............Andy Douglas

[DonaldSmith]

Did Dodgeb4ya mean to say that Oz is Mopar hell? I know it's said to be down under.  

(I know what you guys meant; I'm just stirring things up.)

 

 

[dudford]

Any help in the size of my Plymouth p30 230 crank bolt? It’s not the 1 11/16 or the 1 13/16 that Dodgeb4ya shows from that picture, it’s smaller. As a metric size it’s 31mm or 1.22” so 1 1/4 is a bit sloppy. Any ideas what the actual size is?

 

Edited November 17, 2018 by dudford

[knuckleharley]

4 hours ago, dudford said:

Any help in the size of my Plymouth p30 230 crank bolt? It’s not the 1 11/16 or the 1 13/16 that Dodgeb4ya shows from that picture, it’s smaller. As a metric size it’s 31mm or 1.22” so 1 1/4 is a bit sloppy. Any ideas what the actual size is?

 

One thing you can do is find a 6 point socket or wrench that fits it the closest,and then use tape,tin,or even a shop rag over the nut,and then hammer the socket or wrench on over it to remove it. Once you have removed it you can then replace it with a new bolt of standard size.

 

In extreme cases you can even spot weld a box wrench to the nut to remove it. The heat will even help loosen it.

 

Not an elegant solution,but sometimes you to do what you have to do.

[DrDoctor]

 .

Edited December 20, 2018 by DrDoctor

[Andydodge]

Dud...............a quick question..........is that spanner an SAE/AF size or a Whitworth?........anyway, when you get it off, clean it up, then measure the across flat size, thread count and diameter across the threads............am curious.............andyd...

[rallyace]

Summit Racing sells a flywheel turning tool.  https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-900178?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-summit-racing&gclid=CjwKCAiAlb_fBRBHEiwAzMeEdm4kzjEBCJlyU2IatyRNILBUqQYpgkGnnEJjjdzmkUsdoPpa54h1ZxoCAUwQAvD_BwE

[dudford]

On 11/17/2018 at 11:50 PM, knuckleharley said:

One thing you can do is find a 6 point socket or wrench that fits it the closest,and then use tape,tin,or even a shop rag over the nut,and then hammer the socket or wrench on over it to remove it. Once you have removed it you can then replace it with a new bolt of standard size.

 

In extreme cases you can even spot weld a box wrench to the nut to remove it. The heat will even help loosen it.

 

Not an elegant solution,but sometimes you to do what you have to do.

 

From that image you might just make out the presence of shims in the ring spanner around the nut (a hacksaw if you can see the teeth). It’s on there good with no wiggle. I’ve stood on it, there’s diesel down the bores, I’ll leave it soaking a week and stand on it everyday. That’s worked before fingers crossed it’ll work again. Otherwise I think I’ll have to apply heat which I’m loathe to do.

 

On 11/18/2018 at 1:24 AM, Andydodge said:

Dud...............a quick question..........is that spanner an SAE/AF size or a Whitworth?........anyway, when you get it off, clean it up, then measure the across flat size, thread count and diameter across the threads............am curious.............andyd...

 

Hey Andy, that’s an AF spanner 1 1/14. If all goes to plan once I pull it I’ll give you all the details, I too am curious!! 

 

On 11/18/2018 at 4:23 AM, rallyace said:

Summit Racing sells a flywheel turning tool.  https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-900178?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-summit-racing&gclid=CjwKCAiAlb_fBRBHEiwAzMeEdm4kzjEBCJlyU2IatyRNILBUqQYpgkGnnEJjjdzmkUsdoPpa54h1ZxoCAUwQAvD_BwE

 

Yeah turning the flywheel/torque converter is an option and probably the easier option with the leverage though I’m on a budget and shipping a tool from summit to the UK not top of my list. I am thinking to put a ratchet strap around the flywheel and torque converter and twist a scaffold pole in and give that a go just to get it turning.

 

[Andydodge]

Dud.......looks like you're ahead of all of us........the engines out..........might be easier to reinstall the engine then you could use my block of wood suggestion from the 8th March last year................lol...........what did you say I could do?, stick my head where?...................lol...........ah, mate its all good...........reminds me of when I was playing water distribution tube with the 230 engine a few yrs ago.........got it as a disassembled engine, however the tube was still in the hole.........tried various ways to remove the mongrel thing and after a few weeks of cursing and swearing a mate came around and using two 12-15" long flat bladed screwdrivers with each one of us jamming and wedging the screwdrivers into the hole against the tube we finally got it to move, after it was an inch out it just came out by hand..........lol...........have been trying to think of a way you can hold the crank and have an idea..............can you make a thing thats like the "clacker" on a chocolate wheel.....instead have it so it bolts to the alloy gearbox plate, maybe using the bolts thru to the block or even just a nut & bolt using the starter holes......and has a "finger" that locks into the flywheel ring gear................. probably would need to be at least 1/4 plate thick with the "finger" ideally 3/8th or thicker............I'm assuming that the engine spins over judging by the shiney bores so at least this will lock the engine then try your closest sized spanner..............ain't old cars fun...............lol................Andy Douglas        

 

[knuckleharley]

8 hours ago, dudford said:

 

From that image you might just make out the presence of shims in the ring spanner around the nut (a hacksaw if you can see the teeth). It’s on there good with no wiggle. I’ve stood on it, there’s diesel down the bores, I’ll leave it soaking a week and stand on it everyday. That’s worked before fingers crossed it’ll work again. Otherwise I think I’ll have to apply heat which I’m loathe to do.

 

 

 

 I guess I misunderstood you. I thought you were just trying to remove the pulley/balancer nut,not unstick the engine.

 

NOT being a fan of applying brute force to long levers when freeing up stuck mechanical parts,I prefer to take the lazy method and let my air compressor and penetrating lube do the work for me.

 

1:Remove the side plates so you can back off on the tappets and use a plastic hammer to tap the valves shut.

 

2 Replace the head and torque it down. No need for a new head gasket unless you tore the old one.

 

3: Buy a "valve hold open device" from your local tool store. If you are really cheap and have time to waste,you can make one from a old spark plug by breaking out the proceline (sp?) on a old one and then tapping the base to accept an air line connector.

 

4: Pour all the cylinders full of penetrating oil of some sort. I have used a 50/50 mixture of brake fluid and ATF with pretty good success.

 

5: Since there is no real need to force anything,let it sit overnight so what will penetrate on it's own will do so.

 

6: Hook a air hose and at least 100 psi of air to the hold open device screwed into your head,and let the air pressure and penetrate do it's work.

 

7: Remove the oil fill cap.

 

8:  Sit near it and read a book,listen to music,pick your nose,etc,etc,etc until you hear "glub,glub,glub" noises coming out of the oil fill tube.

 

9: Remove hold open device and screw it into the next cylinder and repeat until they are all done.

 

10: Being the lazy sort,I just "bump" the starter and let it finish breaking the stuck engine loose,but you can use a breaker bar and socket if you want.

 

11: Drain the base pan and fill it with new non-detergent oil.

 

12: Spin it over with the starter using short spins of  5 seconds or so with a few seconds to cool down. Repeat until oil pressure shows on your dash gauge,and then spin it over some more for good luck and proper lube everywhere.

 

13: Adjust your valves.

 

14: Put new plugs in it and start it up after putting it back in the chassis or chaining/strapping it down somehow so it can't chase you around the garage when it starts.

[Merle Coggins]

If it's that stuck you may have to do what I did with my engine. There was no way it would turn over, no matter how long of a lever I could have put on it. The cylinder bores were too rusted up. I flipped the engine over and pulled the crankshaft out of the bottom. Then with a large block of hardwood, and a BFH (Big F..... Hammer) I drove the pistons down slightly, then wire wheeled the cylinder bores to clean them up. Then I could use my block of wood from the bottom and drive them up and out. I also found that all of the valves were seized into the guides. After rocking the cam back and forth, with a large Channel Lock pliers, I was able to get them all fully open. Then I could pull out the cam and tappets and drive the valves out with a long punch from the bottom side. But I was able to salvage the block with a trip to the machine shop, and it runs good to this day.

[Dodgeb4ya]

If all dudford is trying to do is turn the engine over ..

Just insert a 2" long bolt through one of the transmission adapter plate bolt holes (3/8" or 7/16" ).   Just so it protrudes out to the rear towards the torque converter.

Use this bolt as a fulcrum. Get a very large wide screw driver or equivalent and wedge on the ring gear attempting to turn it.

I've done this many times.