New member, Old car

[Dads49]

Hello to all,

I'm happy to be a new member here and hope to gain a lot of knowledge from you.  Several years ago, one of the last coherent conversations I had with my Dad before he died was about cars we loved.  I had asked him what his first car was, to which he responded "a '49 Plymouth 4-door...that was a GREAT car!".  I made up my mind that someday I would restore one in honor of him.  Then, about a year ago, I found a Special Deluxe locally and traded my tractor for it.  It runs and drives fine, but right now stopping isn't its strong suit without a couple of pumps on the pedal.  It also came with a couple of crates of parts.  The original 'semi-automatic' transmission was replaced with a period-correct 3-on-the-tree, but I do have the original as well.   

Overall the car is in great shape and complete except for a couple of trim pieces.  I plan to keep it 99% original.  The body and frame are very solid with minimal damage and only some surface rust (except for the rocker panels and under the spare tire).  The interior has been tastefully and professionally restored.  A couple of issues I'm having are the brakes, which I believe to be mostly the master cylinder (but I'll be replacing wheel cylinders as well), as well as starting issues.  It doesn't have the original thermal choke anymore and doesn't like to start without a little ether.  Carb rebuild?  Other than that, it seems to run fine.  

As a new owner, does anyone have any tips or 'quirks' of the car that would help me out in the long run?  For instance, common issues with mechanical parts, repair tricks, etc.  Does anyone have any experience with the mustang front disc brake conversions?  That would be the 1 and only upgrade I would consider.  Also, what weight oil should I use?  Thanks in advance!!

Jim

[P15-D24]

First, be safe and do a full brake overhaul including steel lines, flex lines, wheel cylinders and master and new shoes. Don't forget the emergency brake. DO it now and you will probably never have to deal with it again in the near future. These cars have solid brake systems but you have to know how to fix and maintain them to get best performance.    Carb overhauls are pretty easy, lots of youtube videos available. It your aren't going to fix the auto choke then consider adding a manual choke. I would check the size of your battery cables, it was pretty common for them to be switched out to 12 volts cables over time. This would contribute to your hard start issues.  And don't forget to drive it!

[knuckleharley]

You might as well go ahead and buy a new/rebuilt fuel pump and water pump and get it over with. They both work for a short while after one has been sitting for years,but they never last long. While you are at it,put a new thermostat in it,replace the belts,and clean and check the brushes in the starter and the generator. Don't forget to re-polarize the generator when you re-install it.

You first money spend should be spend on a factory parts manual,factory service manual,and a Motors Manual that covers 1949 year US cars. Best money you will ever spend because in the long run they will save you hundreds of dollars and untold hours of fumbling around and making mistake you have to correct that you wouldn't have made if you had already owned them.

[rb1949]

They are indeed projects. Be ready. But have fun. There are other disk brake kits available.Make that decision before you start, buy once. 10W30 is a popular oil. Keep posting your progress/questions.

[ptwothree]

If you haven't done so, you should peel back what ever is covering the floor to check it's condition.

Rusty floors is a common occurrence in these cars.

[plyroadking]

I'm intrigued by the original semi-automatic transmission, do you have a picture of it? I didn't think the hy-drive came out till a couple years later? Maybe it's an overdrive transmission someone installed I'm the car?? That would be a very nice surprise!

[Plymouthy Adams]

the Plymouth did not get any of the fluid coupled transmissions....the three on the tree is stock application....retrofitting an engine from a Dodge with such coupled tranny could have been what happened and the original Plymouth transmission affixed and the Dodge tranny laid aside for parts.  Do check the engine number and verify the prefix...drivers side front just below the head...should be a three digit set with first being a letter followed by * 6 digit engine number then a *  You should have a P18 prefix....

as for the brakes...not a MII setup but there are a number of folks making and selling kits...do a search here...many options..read all for ease of install and customer service...

 

Edited February 9, 2017 by Plymouthy Adams

[Flatie46]

Welcome to the forum and good luck with your new ride. I can see why your dad might have made this statement. These are really well engineered cars especially for the time. I'm sure you will enjoy this car. As mentioned above better go thru the brakes first or you'll have to aim for something cheap when they go out. lol

[Dads49]

Thank you all for the information and advice thus far; it's encouraging that there are a lot of people that know about these cars.  From what I gather, the '49 model wasn't the most popular, and I must admit that there certainly are more attractive models, haha.  I'm sure there is a lot of overlap between the models/years.  

Regarding the general maintenance recommendations: I certainly plan to change out all of the parts mentioned first...water pump, thermostat, complete brakes, fuel pump, etc.  I'm actually working on another truck at the moment that will be my daily driver, and the Plymouth will be my 'Sunday best'.  So, I'm not really doing much to it yet but simply gathering information, a few parts here and there, and planning the restoration.  

I don't know the first thing about depolarizing a generator or cleaning brushes on a starter, so perhaps a little help there...or I'll look it up.  The recommendation to grab original manuals is also a great suggestion that I hadn't thought of, so I'll definitely do that.  I'm all ears for recommendations on disc brake kits as well.  The floorboards are fine; I checked those when I looked at the rockers.  

As far as the transmission is concerned, I really only know what I've been told up to this point, which is that the previous-previous owner swapped it out for unknown reasons for the current one.  Supposedly the one that was removed was the semi auto that allows the driver to press in the clutch once to engage 1st, then pull off the gas ever so slightly to permit the transmission to shift.  I will take a pic of it as soon as I can, but the car is at another garage so it might be tomorrow.  

[Dads49]

22 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

the Plymouth did not get any of the fluid coupled transmissions....the three on the tree is stock application....retrofitting an engine from a Dodge with such coupled tranny could have been what happened and the original Plymouth transmission affixed and the Dodge tranny laid aside for parts.  Do check the engine number and verify the prefix...drivers side front just below the head...should be a three digit set with first being a letter followed by * 6 digit engine number then a *  You should have a P18 prefix....

as for the brakes...not a MII setup but there are a number of folks making and selling kits...do a search here...many options..read all for ease of install and customer service...

 

Very, very interesting.  Well let me get some numbers and we'll get to the bottom of this!  Are the transmissions numbered as well and where might I look? Thanks for the intel...

[knuckleharley]

12 minutes ago, Dads49 said:

  The recommendation to grab original manuals is also a great suggestion that I hadn't thought of, so I'll definitely do that. 

Which is why I suggested you buy a Motors Manual that covers the year 1949. You can buy them from ebay,amazon,and other places used from 10 bucks up,depending on condition. Some may start covering US cars in the 30's and end in 1949,and some may start in 1949 and end in 1955. Or even later. The main thing is they not only cover 1949 Plymouths specifically,they also cover basic mechanics like how to rebuild a generator,starter,distributor,carbuerator,engine,transmission,rear end,brakes,etc,etc,etc.

Besides the model and year specific car sections,they also have general sections on brakes,steering,transmissions,etc. In plain language that non-professional mechanics  have a easy time understanding,and with lots of very clear photos

You will want a parts manual so that when you do go to order parts you have the original Mopar parts number to refer to,and that way you can get the exact part you want.

The service manuals cover the mechanicals that are covered in the Motors Manual,but they also cover stuff like body repairs,upholstery,wiring,etc,etc,etc.

It is almost impossible to overstate how valuable those books will be to you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Don Coatney]

As mentioned buy a service manual. You have a lot to learn. Use the forum search function as many of your questions have already been answered.

First car my Dad bought for me was a 49 four door.

[Dads49]

9 minutes ago, Don Coatney said:

You have a lot to learn.

I most certainly do; and I thought it'd be a walk in the park, haha (kidding of course).  I plan on doing a lot of reading; I didn't mean to ask a bunch of questions that had already been answered, it was just supposed to be an introductory thread with a few general inquiries.  

Great photo, thank you for sharing.  

[knuckleharley]

1 hour ago, Dads49 said:

>> I didn't mean to ask a bunch of questions that had already been answered<<

 

I'd be disappointed if someone new to mechanics and old Mopars DIDN'T ask a lot of questions. The fact that they have all been asked before is irrelevant because you weren't here to read them or the replies.

A new guy to old Mopars that doesn't ask questions worries me because he can't be serious about fixing his old car,and I hate to see one more head off to the crusher due to lack of interest and commitment.

Go ahead and feel free to ask anything you feel the need to know. Somebody here will know the answer,and steer you right,be it a link that tells you every thing you need to know about that question,or an explanation.

There is no one  here that is hard to get along with. If someone tells you to use the search engine or some other reply you might think is a little harsh,rest assured it's there and easy to find. They are trying to help you,not act superior to you. We all offer help in different ways,but the key is we all offer help.

Edited February 9, 2017 by knuckleharley

[Branded]

You'll find lots of questions to ask, I myself have asked a lot of questions and also have learned a lot on the forum. I bought my 49 Dodge Wayfarer Roadster 18 months ago. Although I have been restoring and build cars, mostly Chevrolets and GM for the past 40 years, these old Dodges are a different animal. 

[Dads49]

I appreciate the kind words and advice fellas.  While I do have a fair bit of general diagnostic and repair experience working on my own cars, and on my most recent build especially, I do still consider myself a novice.  Obviously I know nothing about the 40's Mopars.  I've had a lot of paid help on my '58 Apache project, but lucky for me the shop owner and I have become good friends and he lets me help out pretty regularly and learn.  I intend for the Plymouth to be a different ball of wax.  This one is a long-term project, one that I can really take my time on and learn as I go.  To me, that's honoring the old man.   

[Flatie46]

I've always thought the '49 Plymouth was kind of popular. Over the years going to swap meets, junk yards and shows, when I mentioned my car (46 Plym) many times there have been someone who had owned a '49 and spoke fondly of them. I know they were popular with customizers and famous for the ribbed bumpers which find their way on to many different applications in the hot rod world. 

  I know brakes were mentioned in earlier posts and you mentioned disk conversion. I wouldn't try to sway you either way as you may be better off with disk. I will say this, if the brakes are right on these old Plymouths they do stop very well for what they are. I went through the whole system on my car when I first got it and it really impressed me how well it did stop. My sons '52 is the same way. At this point I personally see no need to convert to disk on my own car. Just thought I would mention that, it's one more reason I think these were very well engineered cars.

[DJ194950]

Disk brakes are great but not always a great change unless you carry a weight loaded car or live in a mountainous area and meet to do a lot of heavier braking.

If you can lock up all 4 when needed ( the stock setup will) how much more can a disk setup do (without ABS) ?

The one downside for me is the higher pedal pressure required for the stock. But a small woman could and can do it, well I guess I can work with that!

Builds muscle strength !

DJ

 

 

[knuckleharley]

25 minutes ago, DJ194950 said:

Disk brakes are great but not always a great change unless you carry a weight loaded car or live in a mountainous area and meet to do a lot of heavier braking.

If you can lock up all 4 when needed ( the stock setup will) how much more can a disk setup do (without ABS) ?

The one downside for me is the higher pedal pressure required for the stock. But a small woman could and can do it, well I guess I can work with that!

Builds muscle strength !

DJ

 

Quote

 

I agree,but would add that the one place you want to modernize in the interest of safety is to a dual-outlet master cylinder.

 

Edited February 10, 2017 by knuckleharley

[Flatie46]

My 70 Chevy truck has the dual master cylinder, blew a line once and had zero brake. Had to E Brake it and make a sharp left. Not sure why it didn't stop the truck, but it didn't.  The E brake was my second chance. If I was going to rely on a back up it would be the E brake.  

[Dads49]

I think it's more of a comfort thing for me.  I've had both drum and disc, but I'm funny about brakes; I don't even work on them myself.  My old 70's Dodge log trucks and the '69 W200 both had drums all the way around and I had nothing but problems with them.  A 4.5 ton log truck with no brakes makes for a fun ride.  

Perhaps my want for disc brakes is unfounded, but I just feel more comfortable with them.  I'll definitely give it some thought though.

[P15-D24]

53 minutes ago, Flatie46 said:

My 70 Chevy truck has the dual master cylinder, blew a line once and had zero brake. Had to E Brake it and make a sharp left. Not sure why it didn't stop the truck, but it didn't.  The E brake was my second chance. If I was going to rely on a back up it would be the E brake.  

A lot of people think a dual master will keep you from having a full brake failure. I had the exact same experience in a dual master Dodge Dart many years ago. Coming up to a stop sign, pedal all the way to the floor, no brakes. E brake saved my bacon.  

Also it my understanding the advantage of disk over drums is they are more fade resistant when they get hot. Drum brakes have more braking area so in theory they should provided more barking capacity. The problem is the drums can't dissipate the heat as well as a disk so they fade badly after they get hot from repeated use.    

[knuckleharley]

8 minutes ago, P15-D24 said:

A lot of people think a dual master will keep you from having a full brake failure. I had the exact same experience in a dual master Dodge Dart many years ago. Coming up to a stop sign, pedal all the way to the floor, no brakes. E brake saved my bacon.  

Also it my understanding the advantage of disk over drums is they are more fade resistant when they get hot. Drum brakes have more braking area so in theory they should provided more barking capacity. The problem is the drums can't dissipate the heat as a disk so they fade badly after they get hot from repeated use.    

 

I suspect your master cylinder went bad,not a brakeline.

 

When it comes to disc brakes,it's more of a case of them not getting as shot to start with,not with them being able to handle the heat better.

[Dads49]

So I went over to the car today; the pictures of the supposed 'original' transmission are attached.  The number on the side of the engine is: PI8 295073, followed by some kind of symbol; maybe a star?  The casting number on top of the head is: P 1311810-6

The bad news is that when I was scraping the engine number to make it more visible I discovered what I believe to be a crack in the block.  Super bummer.  

Edited February 11, 2017 by Dads49

[Dads49]

Here's the picture of the crack(s)...