'51 Desoto, dent and stud welder

[De55]

Hi, I hope someone with experience using a stud welder can help me. 

There is a dent in the lower left "corner" of my trunk lid that needs to be pulled out. 

I will try to attach pictures, but in case it doesn't work I will give a brief description and my question. 

The dent is approximately 2.5" wide and 5" tall (it's vertical) and very near the edge of the lid.

There is a very slight crease, so I am wondering if a stud welder would work. Do I have to get the pins right 

in the crease, or pins on each side of the crease? I don't think I could get the welder to sit flat at the crease.

Does it need to sit flat in order to work?

 

Thanks in advance,

Dean

 

 

 

[knuckleharley]

I don't understand the question. What you need to do is hammer and dolly that back into the proper shape,not pull anything out.

 

BTW,if it were me,I'd use a short piece of something like a 2x6 pine board to strike with the hammer instead of hitting the metal directly. The relatively soft wood will spread the blow out and make for a smoother surface.  Remember,don't try to hit it hard enough to push it back in with just one swing. Use moderate force and then stop after each blow to check the fit. Work it back into fitting slowly. As you strike the wood and the trunk lid,you will get a "feel" for how much force and how big a hammer you need.

 

Or am I looking at it wrong?

 

Ok,I looked at it again and think I see what you were talking about. The light color makes it hard to see.

 

Still,the first thing to do will be to hammer the end flat or closer to flat before you try to pull out the recessed part.  Once you do that you MIGHT even be able to use another piece of flat wood on the inside and pop it back out with with a moderate hammer blow on the wood. Once you beat the outside edge back to being flat again,it will release the inward tension on the dent and make it a lot easier to get it out.

 

Yeah,I like using wood blocks as striking surfaces to spread the blow.  They are especially useful when trying to "pop" something out in a large area where you can't just use the palm of your hand. The less you have to "work" the metal the better off you are.

Edited August 11, 2016 by knuckleharley

[48Dodger]

Not sure what the inside of your truck lid looks like (I'm a truck guy), but if you can, use a tool to push the dent from the inside.  

 

Behind the dent, so to speak.

 

Otherwise a stud welder will work (I have one). You end up using quite a few to bring the dent along. 

The most important thing is to NOT set anything on fire inside the truck.

 

48D

Edited August 11, 2016 by 48dodger

[De55]

Thank you both for the quick responses.

The problem is, I cannot work from inside because of the lid structure. That's why I thought I would have to pull it out.

I just didn't know if a stud welder would work because of the slight crease.

I will try to attach another picture that might help.

No experience with body work here, but would like to try and do this one myself.

[Plymouthy Adams]

the stud welder or in the absence of that a welded metal tang can be used...you can pull with a bit of pressure from the hollow of the ding but you need to work the very damage at the pressure ridge the ding formed about the damage area...this is where your true damage lies...using the proper hammer and dolly technique will get you where you want to be..follow up with a shrinking disc if you have access to one.  As stated...refrain from banging out the larger part of the dent as you will tend to stretch more metal..work the pressure ridge

[De55]

Thanks Plymouthy. As I understand it, you are saying to work from the perimeter in.

A couple of things....I don't know what a shrinking disc is and a hammer and dolly won't work. I can't get to the skin from the inside because of the frame or structure of the lid.

I will try to get a picture of the backside tonight or this weekend.

thanks again.

[Plymouthy Adams]

the bad part of the stud puller is the fact that you going to put a positive dimple as you heat and pull  then you have to work these issues along with the original sin you trying to fix, you will need multiple studs for this size area..personally I would use tabs with drilled holes...tack in place..hook and pull, bend and snap the weld..grind weld......the simple little triple hammer 5 dolly kits you buy are basics and you will need a specialize dolly for access from behind...is it easy and quick..seldom,  Just do not get in a big hurry and do a slam bang and fill with body filler by making matters worse. 

 

Look online for a shrinking disc...I like the one I have and just used it day before yesterday.  Cost is approx. 45.00 for a heavily made stainless disc.  They pay for themselves with one use on the average.  They often work with no need to hit the metal with a hammer if you have access to both sides....an item I recommend to have in the wings...here is a link......just to show you what they are...options to buy and what one to buy is yours to choose...

 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR3.TRC2.A0.H0.Xshrinking+disc.TRS0&_nkw=shrinking+disc&_sacat=0

Edited August 11, 2016 by Plymouthy Adams

[knuckleharley]

Thanks Plymouthy. As I understand it, you are saying to work from the perimeter in.

A couple of things....I don't know what a shrinking disc is and a hammer and dolly won't work. I can't get to the skin from the inside because of the frame or structure of the lid.

I will try to get a picture of the backside tonight or this weekend.

thanks again.

If you have a MIG welder or are good with a torch,you can use a thin disc to cut away enough of the bracing inside the trunk lid to get access so you can use a hammer and dolly,and then weld it back in once finished and painted inside,and then grind the welds down so they can't be seen.

 

Your car must be insanely rare,and it's worth whatever trouble you have to take to do it right.

[Plymouthy Adams]

If you have a MIG welder or are good with a torch,you can use a thin disc to cut away enough of the bracing inside the trunk lid to get access so you can use a hammer and dolly,and then weld it back in once finished and painted inside,and then grind the welds down so they can't be seen.

 

Your car must be insanely rare,and it's worth whatever trouble you have to take to do it right.

don't know about rare but I think on each task we step up to do ought to be done with the intentions of doing it right from the start....there is no need to cut the corners and sell the job short just because you can...like the body shops today...new fender 75.00 fix dent 125.00 and the consumer is getting plastic and bad enough the reported accident is on carfax and devalues your car .you have further devalued the car by lesser quality workmanship....but again, the choice is yours...and yes even at the adjusters office...I have found that you can deny any plastic filler in a replaceable panel...they don't like it but they will not argue when you point it out..

[De55]

Thanks again you guys. I appreciate the link for the shrinking disc.....now I see what they are but would have to learn how to use one.

I have thought about cutting some of the bracing to get access, but I don't want to make matters worse. I have also thought about paying a pro to do it, but need to find someone local I can trust.

In 2015 at Carlisle I ran across a vender with a perfect trunk lid for a '51 Desoto, but he said it was from a sedan and would not fit the convertible. I did not have any measurements with me so I passed.

[Dave72dt]

I've got a stud gun as well and have used the metal tab method too.  Most stud gun kits come with a slide hammer to assist in pulling the dent.  I very seldom use the slide hammer as such, just use it to grip the stud and apply pressure while working the perimeter.  A vise grip can be used as well and with several clamped to various studs can work back and forth between them to ease the dent out.

 

As far as removing the stud, gripping the base of it and twisting will often pop them off.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Dave72dt

[48Dodger]

Sometimes.....when I know I'm going to be using a lot of studs...I'll use my high speed sander to take them off (36 grit) and "grind them down to the surface.

 

THEN treat my high speed sander as a shrinking disc in the same breath. In other words, I'm using the heat I created to take off the studs to do a bit of shrinking.

 

48D

[De55]

Thanks again. You guys are a wealth of knowledge.

I'll try to get some pictures of the backside of the lid over the weekend. There is no damage other than the skin. It is pushed into the middle of the "C" or "U" shaped structural part of the lid.

I think pulling it out is the route I'll take. I am new at body work, so I hope I can get it right.

[JerseyHarold]

Might be a little far-fetched but....they make inflatable car-opening tools that are fairly flat and come with a squeeze-bulb inflater,  Maybe you can get one between the inside of the lid skin and brace to pop the dent.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Paint-less dent removal guys use these thin inflatable bags... no paint damage.

Used on soft smooth dents.

[Allmyjunk]

The pdr(paintless dent removal) guys can do some amazing things i am a painter at a body shop it's amazing what they can do with hail dammage, also like it has been said work the dent from the outside in and dont get in a hurry

[William Davey]

Thanks again. You guys are a wealth of knowledge.

I'll try to get some pictures of the backside of the lid over the weekend. There is no damage other than the skin. It is pushed into the middle of the "C" or "U" shaped structural part of the lid.

I think pulling it out is the route I'll take. I am new at body work, so I hope I can get it right.

 

The best advice I was given was to imagine how the dent was formed and then reverse that process.  This usually means starting at the end or outside edge of the dent and working back toward the center (usually the point of impact/first thing damaged).  Hope this makes sense.

[De55]

Thanks again everyone for your advice. I have a better understanding of how to proceed now. It has been so hot and humid here, I probably will wait for some cooler weather.

I am going to try to attach a couple of pics of the inside of the lid.