brakes or lack of

[atlbluz]

Just rebuilt the front wheel cylinders of my P-6.  Installed new shoes from Bernbaum.  The brakes are working, I can see deflection in the backing plates.  But now I have almost no pedal, about 2 inches off the floor.  I have adjusted and adjusted and get no change.  I had good pedal before I started this.  I am adjusting without the wheel and tire on the hub, so I am wondering if the lack of leverage would make that much difference.  Any suggestions.  Greg

[casper50]

re-bleed the brakes. there's most likely air in the lines.

[Plymouthy Adams]

compare your shoes for correct tang that is the point for the piston pin that spreads the shoes...I take it you re-used your old spreader pins...?

[Dodgeb4ya]

Did you arc the shoes to the drums? Are the drums bell mouthed? Did you have the drums checked for wear?

[desoto1939]

You might need the Ammco brake tool to get the proper setup with the Lockheed brake system.  I have the tool contact me and rent it out to people that need it..

 

Did you move any of the bottom eccentric pins. You might have to do a major brake adjustment and the Ammco tool makes it much easier to get the brake shoes properly adjusted

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

cell 484-431-8157

[atlbluz]

I am going to try to respond to you all.  to Plymouthy Adams the P-6 has never had spreader pins, the shoes go directly into the wheel cylinder.  At least as long as I have had it.

To Dodgeb4ya Drums showed no appreciable wear since I last turned them, but I did not arc the shoes to the drum.  I may have to pull it apart and check that.

To Desoto1939 yes I have moved the bottom eccentrics, I can actually do that with everything assembled.  Loosen the steering arms and the eccentrics can be adjusted.  Yes I may need to rent the tool.

[Plymouthy Adams]

Thanks for the reminder of the direct shoe contact..I keep forgetting of the older cars...however on that note are they contact profiles the same?  I often suggest the 'difference' before address a problem in your work or process...

[atlbluz]

Plymouthy Adams I will have to disassemble one side to check that.  I meant to do measurements before I installed, but I got in a hurry and forgot.  maybe I should see if someone could reline my old set before the weekend, I know they wee correct. 

[Sharps40]

Typically good break pedal (firm) that is close to the floor = rear shoes too far from drum.

 

Bring the rears to slight drag, with full contact of shoe to drum. 

 

These old lockheeds, out and down and out and down and exercise the pedal between each adjustment to center up the shoes until its making fullest contact.  Ya may not be able to arc the shoes, I never did.  Just got em out and down till I had best brake pedal and they wore in from the toe/heal to the centers. 

[knuckleharley]

re-bleed the brakes. there's most likely air in the lines.

And put the wheels and tires back on it or you will never get the brakes adjusted properly.

[desoto1939]

The 38 and 39 used the same type of single wheel cylinder. they are called step downs because of the two different size internal pistons.  The cylinder is mounted at the top of the backing plate.  So when you moved the eceentric pins on the bottom then you took bottom of the linings out of adjustment.  Best if you can get the lining arced with the Ammco safe arcing machine.  But you now will need the Ammco brake gage 1750 to get the shoes in the proper position in relation to the drum fron the front and rear shoes on each wheel. 

 

You could do the job without the tool but having the tool makes the job go faster and you will have a better pedal.

 

You have the same setup as my 1939 Desoto so this is how I know what has happened.

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

[TodFitch]

. . .  Ya may not be able to arc the shoes, I never did.  Just got em out and down till I had best brake pedal and they wore in from the toe/heal to the centers. 

 

I was able to get my shoes pretty close using sticky back sand paper and the brake drums for the tooling: With line the inside of the drum with the sticky back sand paper then rub the shoes for that drum back and forth in the drum until the contact is continuous. I used a marking pen to draw some lines across the shoe faces so I could track progress, when all the lines were gone I was done.

 

And put the wheels and tires back on it or you will never get the brakes adjusted properly.

 

 

You need the drums on to bleed the brakes, and without the Ammco tool or equivalent you need the drums on to adjust. But why do you need the wheels and tires?

[knuckleharley]

 

You need the drums on to bleed the brakes, and without the Ammco tool or equivalent you need the drums on to adjust. But why do you need the wheels and tires?

To get the proper "feel" for the drag. The wheel and tire provides much greater leverage to spin the drum.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Drive it enough and keep adjusting the shoes up you will have  high and firm pedal.

It could take a few thousand miles to do so though.

Otherwise arc and 1750 ammco the shoes.