? Of Mopar Flathead Reliability

[55 Fargo]

only reason I am at this thread and made an entry was that a member sent me the link in a PM where you had asked me directly why I had not weighted in...if that would not have been sent to me in that manner I would not have known the question was put forth...sorry...but I do not always read all threads...only those that interest me...going on about the flathead like this just makes little sense...if you have run and keep it up there are things that need be done in routine maintenance...common sense stuff and part of ownership regardless of engine make or model..does not have to be rehashed every day in some form or another..

Glad you could join in, perhaps your Friend should have joined you too. But maybe they thought you could provide some stories on your history with the Chrysler flathead 6.

 Never have do I think you have any shortage of participation on this forum, with 21,042 posts.........LOL

[Plymouthy Adams]

Fargos-Go-Far, on 04 Dec 2015 - 09:22 AM, said:

Glad you could join in, perhaps your Friend should have joined you too. But maybe they thought you could provide some stories on your history with the Chrysler flathead 6.

 Never have do I think you have any shortage of participation on this forum, with 21,042 posts.........LOL

Fred...had he not read this thread, how could he have informed me thusly...so by that fact I must assume he has participated..I often will read all threads when first posted but not always continue with every input from there on...I would venture to think that there are a good number of other members that do likewise. 

[Jeff Balazs]

Fred;

As you know I am now using my flathead powered 52 truck daily. I am counting on it being reliable. So far it has been. And mind you this engine was revived and not rebuilt. I have not put gobs of miles on yet but the miles I have put on are in heavy stop and go traffic. Not a healthy place to have a breakdown or drive like a poke.

Since I am committed to making this work long term I will continue to tinker with it until I get it just right. Some of the mods I have made have contributed to my confidence in the old truck. Certainly the 4 wheel disc brakes along with the 6V alternator, full time electric fuel pump and the pertronics ignition are already a success in my book.

As I move forward I will address some short comings. It could really use a bit more power and I would enjoy driving it more if it had an automatic instead of the old gear box it has now. Whether I go to an automatic or just a different stick I feel it would benefit from a more "optimized" selection of gear ratios. I believe this is the one thing that  would really make a difference to it's driveability in todays' traffic.

. I will look at getting a few more ponies out of this engine. I will probably go with a set of Langdon headers , a 2 bbl manifold and shave the head to get a slight boost in compression to begin with. That may be all it needs to get the gain in power I am after.

 

I will continue to update my daily driver thread and post my findings and failures.

 

Jeff

[Plymouthy Adams]

Bingo Jeff...many love the old body styles and know that while original will get you by...to really enjoy the vehicle as a daily some very import reliability and safety upgrades should be considered...again..if going to a museum for static display, heck it don't need to even run s along as it looks good and will roll with a few hands against the body ..

[55 Fargo]

Tim, glad you are enjoying the thread, I know I have, and hope the posters and readers did as well. Hopefully You have gained something from it, as I know I have.

So to get back on topic, if those so choose, please share your experiences and stories if you feel so inclined.

I am hoping Tim, this steers this thread back on track, as it is appearing to go off the rails a bit. As you are a very avid poster, I think you will see my point.

[Young Ed]

As an engineer in the auto industry, I can tell you that modern engines are certainly long lasting and undergo more stringent testing that those of the past. But I would never call my 230 fragile. I suspect your friend has seen lots of old engines fail because they are old, usually at the end of their useful lives so it's natural that more of these would be failing in his experience.

I'd say Most modern engines are longer lasting. There's been some losers along the way too.

[timkingsbury]

Well its been an interesting thread and without trying to start a fight attempting to debate reliability vs long lasting is an easy debate.   How many of the cars, if

any will be around  50 or 70 years from now and make it 250,000 or more miles?

 

We can debate reliability and what should be done to improve a vehicles braking or whether you need electronic vs points.   Here is what I know.  Walter Chrysler

and the Dodge brothers had engines with full oil pressure, and modern crank bearing inserts decades before ford and gm, who had dippy oil systems or babbet bearings.

Chryslers braking system was light years ahead of others  and was both reliable and capable of stopping a vehicle at speeds well in excess of the speed limits.

 

I own a 1936 Chrysler which has a documented 538,000 miles on it.   Yes, the brakes have been gone over, yes it is on its 3rd engine rebuild. The reality is that

it likely now only goes 500-1000 miles a year now.  It is basically the same car that came off the line in 1936.   It has an overdrive, its capable of

driving over 100 mph and it will stop in a pretty short distance. I believe the key to its reliability was maintenance and good oil.   Many older cars died

prematurely because of bad oil, lack of oil or lack of maintenance.  Yes, parts can fail.  I can tell you in terms of stranded on the road, over its lifetime

the 36 Chrysler's worst stranding was because of tires more than mechanical.   On its current rebuild it has now over 140,000 miles and for the last couple of

decades has run full synthetic oil.  After its last brake job, where a line was leaking and I decided to go over the brakes front to back, we replaced all

the lines and put full synthetic brake fluid in it. We also had my friend sleeve the master cylinder which provides the "poor man power brakes".

 

I think that may be the biggest modification to the car from an engineering factor.

 

I can point to dozens of mopars with well over 250,000 miles on them. Some like George Asche's 1929 had the working engine removed in the early

50s for a high performance flathead Chrysler engine. That engine has been replaced with another similar engine and it is still today, driven like it was stolen.

How many miles it has is more a guess than documented. But I would bet it far exceeds 99.9% of cars that will come off an assembly line this past year.

 

I can also show a 1952 truck, it is a 4 ton truck with a factory 265 factory dual carbs and exhaust. It was purchased brand new by the township of muskoka, in Ontario

Canada and its log books last entry was at 240,380 miles. At that point the truck which was a township plow truck in the winter and a dump truck in the summer  had

just had its 70th oil change and was sent to auction.  The person who bought it, regularly serviced it and used it year round in a logging operation. It plowed sometimes 8-12 hours a day in the winter and in the spring was shifted to road building.  Unfortunately how many times the speedometer rolled over, wasn't really kept track of. Its owner

figured he put another 100 or 200 thousand on the truck.    When my Dad and I purchased the truck for $1  it hadn't been run in 10 years. We spend about 3 hours, got it running loaded on to a tilt and load and brought it home. 

 

It didn't take long to realize the engine had been rebuilt, but it was only 10 thou over stock. The exhaust manifolds are wafer thin but still appear original. That truck cleaned up

at 20 thou, and the crank and rods are 10 and 20 bearings now. We put a new oil pump in it, not because the old one failed but because when your rebuilding one, there

are some things you may as well replace. 

 

But the point being I would say that engine was definitely reliable and most modern engines in similar applications couldn't hope to last as long.    

 

That doesn't mean we would only drive something out of the 50s. My Dad;s last truck was a 1998 dodge with a Cummins diesel  -  interestingly still an inline

6.  It is in KM not miles, but  roughly translated has 370,000 miles on it.  Like the Dodge, Chrysler and Plymouths of the 30s and 50s  Dad;s 98 outlasts

the ford and gm pickups of its generation by miles.  For that I can point to documented Dodge's with Cummins Diesels with more than well north of 1/2  a million miles.

 

So one could use that as evidence that the modern engines last longer.. lol..  yah I guess you could.  But then I wonder if we put a brand new 265 ci motor from 1952

in a 1998 dodge, exactly how many miles it would have run ?  I suspect it might just surprise you on how reliable it would be.

 

 

In the end, it all depends on what you want.  I recently owned a VW Passat  with a v10 diesel in it.. Yes I am that guy, and yes I could prove it. It has massive hp and

technology coming out its backside.  I could get into it at my place and drive from my place in Ontario Canada to Carlisle PA, picking up my buddy George on the way

and never put a drop of fuel in it.  I certainly couldn't do that with Dad;s 1998 or my 1936. But I can tell you, I wouldn't be afraid to jump in either of

those and make the same drive.   All three are super reliable, and I do drive all three of them.  But in the middle of the summer, if I am going to drive a 1000 miles or

so, I must confess.. Heated and cooled seats,  satellite radio and a car that can pretty much outrun  anything on the road, likely has a bit more appeal for me.

 

Now if I was going to haul a race car, or a trailer with several tons on it, well  the 1998 Dodge clearly has the edge and if I want to take 6 people out at the same time

on a summer Sunday afternoon, well the 1936 Chrysler like make a lot more sense.  Yes I could put 3 in the front and 3 in the box of the truck, or 5 in the VW and 1 in the trunk

but some how the 1936 has the edge and is a little cooler.

 

But back to the topic at hand.. reliability is a question of what your doing and like ice-cream what flavour you like.  I think my 1949 Plymouth is reliable and clearly it

is a barely streetable  flathead. I think our rear engine dragster which is a flathead is reliable, but clearly if it didn't get you into trouble out on the road, its fuel capacity and consumption likely deem it  by many as unreliable... lol.. and my 1936 has proven to my family that is as reliable today as it was when it rolled off the line.

 

There is my two cents..

 

Tim

[Don Coatney]

Well its been an interesting thread and without trying to start a fight attempting to debate reliability vs long lasting is an easy debate.    

 

I think my 1949 Plymouth is reliable and clearly it is a barely streetable  flathead.

Tim

I am in complete agreement that the Mopar flathead 6 engine is as dependable as the day is long. Over the past 10 or so years I have had the pleasure to visit George Asche several times. On these visits he has treated me to a ride in his 29 Desoto and his 1950 Plymouth. I have seen the tachometer in his Desoto exceed five thousand RPM's more than once. George told me his 1950 Plymouth engine has close to 300 thousand miles on it. He has done things such as shimming the main bearings in this engine to make this happen. That combined with the use of modern lubricants greatly add to the longevity of these engines.

 

I do have a question about your 1949 Plymouth. It is a great looking car and the engine looks very good. However on every visit that I (and other forum members) have made to visit George over the past several years your 1949 Plymouth has been reliably parked in the same location. My finger prints are most likely visible in the dust on the fenders. Is this car drivable and if so how reliable is it with its highly modified engine? How many miles has this car been driven with this barely street-able  flathead engine?

[timkingsbury]

I am in complete agreement that the Mopar flathead 6 engine is as dependable as the day is long. Over the past 10 or so years I have had the pleasure to visit George Asche several times. On these visits he has treated me to a ride in his 29 Desoto and his 1950 Plymouth. I have seen the tachometer in his Desoto exceed five thousand RPM's more than once. George told me his 1950 Plymouth engine has close to 300 thousand miles on it. He has done things such as shimming the main bearings in this engine to make this happen. That combined with the use of modern lubricants greatly add to the longevity of these engines.

 

I do have a question about your 1949 Plymouth. It is a great looking car and the engine looks very good. However on every visit that I (and other forum members) have made to visit George over the past several years your 1949 Plymouth has been reliably parked in the same location. My finger prints are most likely visible in the dust on the fenders. Is this car drivable and if so how reliable is it with its highly modified engine? How many miles has this car been driven with this barely street-able  flathead engine?

I am not sure how many of your 3 total visits you have made to Fertigs my 1949 plymouth was there, but thanks Don, for your public admission to your "finger prints" on the fenders.   You may not realize that living in the country side tends to build light coatings of dust, and running your fingers in the dust, isn't exactly a smart thing to do.

 

So yes, I believe this may be a pair of pictures taken right after your last visit, when both George, his Son Rob and I wondered who

decided to put their finger prints on several parts of the car.

 

George, his boys  and I will make sure we increase security to make sure tourists are not scratching cars in the future.

 

In terms of your other questions Don, forgive me but when I stop seeing red from finding out who decided to run their finger in the dust on my car, maybe I will be able to better answer... Then again maybe not.    So Don, please don't go away mad, just go away.  If you haven't figured it

out yet, you may have worn out your welcome.

[50plymouth]

I am in complete agreement that the Mopar flathead 6 engine is as dependable as the day is long. Over the past 10 or so years I have had the pleasure to visit George Asche several times. On these visits he has treated me to a ride in his 29 Desoto and his 1950 Plymouth. I have seen the tachometer in his Desoto exceed five thousand RPM's more than once. George told me his 1950 Plymouth engine has close to 300 thousand miles on it. He has done things such as shimming the main bearings in this engine to make this happen. That combined with the use of modern lubricants greatly add to the longevity of these engines.

 

I do have a question about your 1949 Plymouth. It is a great looking car and the engine looks very good. However on every visit that I (and other forum members) have made to visit George over the past several years your 1949 Plymouth has been reliably parked in the same location. My finger prints are most likely visible in the dust on the fenders. Is this car drivable and if so how reliable is it with its highly modified engine? How many miles has this car been driven with this barely street-able  flathead engine?

Don, you didn't seriously just admit to scratching another members car did you ?

Edited December 5, 2015 by 50plymouth

[50plymouth]

I am not sure how many of your 3 total visits you have made to Fertigs my 1949 plymouth was there, but thanks Don, for your public admission to your "finger prints" on the fenders.   You may not realize that living in the country side tends to build light coatings of dust, and running your fingers in the dust, isn't exactly a smart thing to do.

 

So yes, I believe this may be a pair of pictures taken right after your last visit, when both George, his Son Rob and I wondered who

decided to put their finger prints on several parts of the car.

 

George, his boys  and I will make sure we increase security to make sure tourists are not scratching cars in the future.

 

In terms of your other questions Don, forgive me but when I stop seeing red from finding out who decided to run their finger in the dust on my car, maybe I will be able to better answer... Then again maybe not.    So Don, please don't go away mad, just go away.  If you haven't figured it

out yet, you may have worn out your welcome.

Your a better man than I am.  As my wife would tell you I would go postal on a guy for leaving finger prints on my car.  To think you have pictures and some one has

admitted to leaving them is proof positive of a lot of things for me. 

[Don Coatney]

I am not sure how many of your 3 total visits you have made to Fertigs my 1949 plymouth was there, but thanks Don, for your public admission to your "finger prints" on the fenders.   You may not realize that living in the country side tends to build light coatings of dust, and running your fingers in the dust, isn't exactly a smart thing to do.

 

So yes, I believe this may be a pair of pictures taken right after your last visit, when both George, his Son Rob and I wondered who

decided to put their finger prints on several parts of the car.

 

George, his boys  and I will make sure we increase security to make sure tourists are not scratching cars in the future.

 

In terms of your other questions Don, forgive me but when I stop seeing red from finding out who decided to run their finger in the dust on my car, maybe I will be able to better answer... Then again maybe not.    So Don, please don't go away mad, just go away.  If you haven't figured it

out yet, you may have worn out your welcome.

LOL, nice try Tim. Sorry but the molested dust you pictured is not where I touched your car. I did notice there were not any bugs on the front of your car so back to my original question.  Is this car drivable and if so how reliable is it with its highly modified engine? How many miles has this car been driven with this barely street-able  flathead engine?

[Frank Elder]

Fingerprints on a car...oh my!.....teeny tiny abrasions...good gracious! Mommy somebody touched my car as they were admiring it.

 

You guys act like he snuck up in the middle of the night and took a hay rake to it......cry babies, I'd laugh some more but my ribs already ache a little bit......

[timkingsbury]

LOL, nice try Tim. Sorry but the molested dust you pictured is not where I touched your car. I did notice there were not any bugs on the front of your car so back to my original question.  Is this car drivable and if so how reliable is it with its highly modified engine? How many miles has this car been driven with this barely street-able  flathead engine?

Don -  I realize with 19 1/2 thousand posts on your  "Don Coatney" account,  you tend to try and deflect when you have been caught red handed.. and there are tons of examples where it seems you just like to hear yourself talk or think that people owe you and explanation or something.  Well perhaps you best read my notes on this thread a little closer.  Then have a real close to my next post ! 

Edited December 5, 2015 by timkingsbury

[timkingsbury]

Dear Don - since it is clear you cant take a hint I could do what so many do and just leave the forum as your know it all attitude gets

so annoying, but when you post comments in an attempt to be a smart ass, and comment about leaving finger prints on my car while

it was being worked on, you have crossed the line and if you and your gange are not bright enough to realize its far more than leaving

finger prints, well, I cant fix stupid.   You have failed to fully read my post, you clearly need to be hit between the eyes to get a hint, so

hey,  as pointed out by an administer, I could just put you on ignore.  So thankfully my world on the forum just became a lot more

pleasant (see the attached picture),

 

 

 

As for potential future visits, you may just find the friendly receptions may be a little less so, but then I expect you wont get why

that is happening either.

 

 

 

 

[55 Fargo]

Tod or GTK, please lock this thread, my intention was to have some good dialogue and discussion on the very topic of Chrysler Flathead reliability, not some pi$$ing match with Don Coatney and PlyMouthy Adams.

It seems many times these 2 feel compelled to interrupt and bring a negative slant to many threads, Don and Tim, you both revel in the business of "trouble making:, so their sub handle the " Boo Birds" is really fitting.There are many on here who would share this opinion, and in all fairness, many who would not.

I know you may get a perverse pleasure out of this "Grand Standing" antics, but it is quite juvenile in nature.

So I move to have this thread locked and closed from further posting, another good thread, has gone sour,,because certain individuals have been allowed to sabotage content on this forum far too often....

Edited December 5, 2015 by Fargos-Go-Far

[Plymouthy Adams]

Fred..just where am I in this so called contest...if you recall, you sent a direct message on open forum asking me to weigh in....I usually avoid your threads like this as it is always a rehash and you cannot accept the fact that a person can have modified and stock and wait...more than one old vehicle...until you ask me to weigh in I was perfectly content with not joining the thread.  I was just responding to your request...somewhere along the line one has to understand that if he asks a question of another on merits and values of an item. please be prepared for the answer as it may be different from your mindset but in no manner wrong....look back..my answer was very clear and accurate..you added the flippant comments yourself...sorry but I see you as the very person who muddies such threads..until you have some respect for others, and if not respect but a middling of tolerance for the alternate build...do not elicit comment from those people in a direct question as plainly everyone can see you are not prepared to handle the answers.  

[Young Ed]

Tod or GTK, please lock this thread, my intention was to have some good dialogue and discussion on the very topic of Chrysler Flathead reliability, not some pi$$ing match with Don Coatney and PlyMouthy Adams.

It seems many times these 2 feel compelled to interrupt and bring a negative slant to many threads, Don and Tim, you both revel in the business of "trouble making:, so their sub handle the " Boo Birds" is really fitting.There are many on here who would share this opinion, and in all fairness, many who would not.

I know you may get a perverse pleasure out of this "Grand Standing" antics, but it is quite juvenile in nature.

So I move to have this thread locked and closed from further posting, another good thread, has gone sour,,because certain individuals have been allowed to sabotage content on this forum far too often....

 

Fred have you lost it? You personally asked Tim to join this thread! Your buddy Tim Kingsbury is your certain individual sabotaging this thread

[Jeff Balazs]

We were discussing reliability here. And there is bound to be many opinions about how far you can take modifications before these engines become tempermental. We have to weigh all this when we go down that path. I don't think this thread needs to be locked. We have to be able to agree to disagree on some things. Censorship is not the correct solution. It rarely is.

 

Jeff

[55 Fargo]

Fred..just where am I in this so called contest...if you recall, you sent a direct message on open forum asking me to weigh in....I usually avoid your threads like this as it is always a rehash and you cannot accept the fact that a person can have modified and stock and wait...more than one old vehicle...until you ask me to weigh in I was perfectly content with not joining the thread.  I was just responding to your request...somewhere along the line one has to understand that if he asks a question of another on merits and values of an item. please be prepared for the answer as it may be different from your mindset but in no manner wrong....look back..my answer was very clear and accurate..you added the flippant comments yourself...sorry but I see you as the very person who muddies such threads..until you have some respect for others, and if not respect but a middling of tolerance for the alternate build...do not elicit comment from those people in a direct question as plainly everyone can see you are not prepared to handle the answers.  

Tim, what in the heck did you add that was positive to this thread????

You are correct, but did ask you to share as per directly related to the topic, I am not expecting perfection here Tim.

You now are qualifying your yourself, because I posted you personally to add in your comments and experience, just like you did on the "Top Speed Thread".

Please Explain Tim, how has your Content helped facilitate a positive theme in this thread?

OI do not understand Tim, you State, you have made Posts related to this topic over your 21000 post history, why on earth did you associate yourself to this thread, if it you feel you have nothing to contribute.

Tim at the end of the day, I think we can "Agree to Disagree", and nothing wrong with that, you are not perfect, but neither am I.

Again Moderators, please close this thread..

Edited December 5, 2015 by Fargos-Go-Far

[Don Coatney]

Sorry Fred but I did not start any trouble. I complimented the Kingsbury car and asked for additional information.

[55 Fargo]

Fred have you lost it? You personally asked Tim to join this thread! Your buddy Tim Kingsbury is your certain individual sabotaging this thread

 

 

We were discussing reliability here. And there is bound to be many opinions about how far you can take modifications before these engines become tempermental. We have to weigh all this when we go down that path. I don't think this thread needs to be locked. We have to be able to agree to disagree on some things. Censorship is not the correct solution. It rarely is.

 

Jeff

Oh now I get it, TIm and Don get challenged on their conduct on this thread, so they need your help.

I hate to say this Boys, but have got a number of PMs since yesterday, from different members who are in agreement that Don and Tim, need to chill out with their antics. 

Neither 1 of you Gents and I have had bad words and would like to keep it that way.

[Plymouthy Adams]

and, I only answered your question and if you care to read it again it was in the manner supportive of the flathead.  But you counter always to my installing alternate V engines and instantly it seems I am now the enemy and attacked by the very person who himself had mentioned here numerous time that he is entertaining a V8 in his vehicle....I am sorry Fred that I own a number of cars here and choose to build them to my pleasure and not that of others, maybe this is what grate on you, one may never know, indeed I thought this was a very aspect of the hobby and the why of this forum...sharing thoughts, and being polite when asked a question by answering honestly...

[55 Fargo]

Sorry Fred but I did not start any trouble. I complimented the Kingsbury car and asked for additional information.

Okay Don, so now you are in a "Process Of Discovery", so after TK, posted in a lot of detail, that other flathead powered vehicles, he owns, as well as George Asche's 29 Desoto, has gone several 100s of  thousands of miles. What was your intentions on seeking information on his 49 Plymouth?

I am surprised you did not ask, how many miles he put on the dragster too?

Don you let's get honest, your sole intention was to get a reaction, and steer this thread into the ditch, as you have done many many times before, with many different people over the years.

Don I have been active on here over 10 years, and some members have not had the experience to account for the aforementioned events, so they may not understand the nature of the beast, or your beast I should say...

[Young Ed]

Oh now I get it, TIm and Don get challenged on their conduct on this thread, so they need your help.

I hate to say this Boys, but have got a number of PMs since yesterday, from different members who are in agreement that Don and Tim, need to chill out with their antics. 

Neither 1 of you Gents and I have had bad words and would like to keep it that way.

I have a feeling I'm wrong here but I would like to believe that is Tim K and don mentioned in those PMs.

 

I don't feel Jeff or I joined in just because it was Don or Tim. I know I joined to call out BS as I saw it.