There's A reason Bodywork Is Expensive

[55 Fargo]

Hi all, beginning to think PP Flamings clear over rusty patina and burnt metal is not a crazy idea.

Anyway, spent 12 hours on doing filler work on a wicked rough, warped, banged up rear fender, but very little rust.

I am way over my head in this degree of work, minor stuff okay, major filler, and straightening, not so much.

Now I spent 12 hours on this, an experienced bodyman would have spent maybe 4 hours.

There is a reason body work is expensive, it is very time consuming and labor intensive, and really not my idea of fun. I am far to impatient to have the time,energy and patience for this type of work....LOL

I will have wavy fenders, but way better than they were, they will match the wavy truck, next time I will buy glass repops, primer and paint, no finessing for hours on end....

[48Dodger]

Damn right its not easy!! lol

 

Fiberglass requires its own kind of bodywork....I prefer steel myself.

 

 

48D

Edited April 29, 2015 by 48dodger

[DJ194950]

Hi all, beginning to think PP Flamings clear over rusty patina and burnt metal is not a crazy idea.

Anyway, spent 12 hours on doing filler work on a wicked rough, warped, banged up rear fender, but very little rust.

I am way over my head in this degree of work, minor stuff okay, major filler, and straightening, not so much.

Now I spent 12 hours on this, an experienced bodyman would have spent maybe 4 hours.

There is a reason body work is expensive, it is very time consuming and labor intensive, and really not my idea of fun. I am far to impatient to have the time,energy and patience for this type of work....LOL

I will have wavy fenders, but way better than they were, they will match the wavy truck, next time I will buy glass repops, primer and paint, no finessing for hours on end....

 

Yours is probably as good as the 7 day build tv shows. Now 4 coats of epoxy-hi-buid primer and 4 guys with proper sanding tools for two rear fenders @ 100 hr.= done overnight as you sleep!

 

Next day=

 

Show stopping paint after 100 hr. painters with $300 qt. paint!

 

Forgot the color coat sanding and buffing at 100hr. PERFECTION!

 

Or do it yourself to please you. Perfect?. It is for you! 

[NiftyFifty]

I'm doing 75% of my body work on my truck, and no way will any of it be perfect, even the stuff done by the body shop. Maybe if I gave them a blank cheque and said PERFECT the box would come close, but I capped them at $1500 to just do the minor welding and bodywork on the box sides and rear fenders. I shaved the two top fender bolts on my fronts, but mainly because I had already cut 4 1/2 x 7" holes in the fenders where the mounts had rotted out the fender, and some day I'll either track down good steel fenders or a glass set. I gave up on my running boards, their just so dented and messes up that I coated them with rock guard and I will just paint them. I plan to build a new aluminum set some day. All that said, I can say I did the work on the truck, and didn't use new parts, and didn't just hand it to someone else to do it all, that to me is as important as a perfect truck.

You guys going to Back to the 50's can pick out the spot I'm sure when you see the truck.

[pflaming]

Fargo, when I started this HOBBY I decided I was not going to do any more body work than what i absolutely had to, BUT that I also would not leave a vehicle that someone could NOT restore later. My goal remains to fix em to drive not to sand, sand, sand, primer, premier, etc.

I get a bit of slack for that, and that's ok with me, just adds to my enjoyment. I did do a bit of body work and more to do, to the suburban, bit that will be the only one I'll do.

[55 Fargo]

Well this is a hobby or lifestyle, so we gotta do, what we gotta do.

I shot on 3 coats of primer tonight, both sides all back to back with a very short flash time.

The weather was warm, bugs came out, got a few in the primer, as I shot it on outdoors.

I am going to now wait and spray in rocker rubber undercoating inside the fenders, will finesse the outside a bit more, then more primer and quick slick sanding and painting, they are very far from perfect, but so is the rest of my truck, and it's body work.

I am like 4mula-dix, will redo this at some point, want new fenders or an entire box, and front fenders and nose piece if I can find a good donor truck...

But for now, she is cleaned up and in 1 color....then the V8 is coming

[ledfootslim]

I spent about six hours a day for about five months doing the body and paint on Lady Grey, and even as poor as it turned out, I wouldn't have wanted anyone else to do it! At least this way I don't worry about the little dings and scrapes.....

[55 Fargo]

I spent about six hours a day for about five months doing the body and paint on Lady Grey, and even as poor as it turned out, I wouldn't have wanted anyone else to do it! At least this way I don't worry about the little dings and scrapes.....

Here was my Lady Grey, I did all the body work and paint job at home myself. I had to sell her unfortunately do to financial reasons 2 years ago. The new owner and I keep in touch, he has collection of vintage mopar vehicles..

[NiftyFifty]

Both cars look great to me.... I purposely have left some imperfections from the factory in the truck, and the fact that it looks like it had a MAJOR cab overhaul at some point...,,as in the roof was changed or roof and whole back section....it's the history of the truck and I'm not trying to hide it....it is technically still a 65 year old farm truck.

I've said it once, I'll say it again....I'm a mechanic....don't hire a mechanic to do your bodywork and don't hire a bodyman to rebuild your engine...that why there's two separate professions.

Edit....because IPhones and iPads suck!

Edited April 30, 2015 by 4mula-dlx

[ledfootslim]

Here was my Lady Grey, I did all the body work and paint job at home myself. I had to sell her unfortunately do to financial reasons 2 years ago. The new owner and I keep in touch, he has collection of vintage mopar vehicles..

Beautiful dodge! 

[55 Fargo]

Beautiful dodge! 

She be a 47 Chrysler Royal Coupe, 228 Lhead 6, 3 spd standard, no fluid drive clutch and 3.73 rearend....

[ledfootslim]

She be a 47 Chrysler Royal Coupe, 228 Lhead 6, 3 spd standard, no fluid drive clutch and 3.73 rearend....

My bad, my bad. I'll blame it on my little phone and not my general ignorance   She was lovely nonetheless.

[White Spyder]

I. Know the feeling. When I painted the Chrysler last August I sanded for weeks!

[NiftyFifty]

I'm shooting the first colour tomorrow morning, I'm finishing my blocking today, and it's just a never ending job if you want to make it that way....but if you were sane you would have never used the fenders I did or likely the one door, but that's the price for original. And as 48dodger said, I've heard some bad nightmares on brand new glass body parts.

[48Dodger]

Omg....fiberglass parts:......bad mounting points.....air pockets.....spider castings, whatever you wanna call it....warped wavy thru "flat" areas.....under reinforced....etc etc....nothing a body guy can't deal with, just a pain. 

 

 I have pictures.....just to painfull to post....lol

 

48D

[pflaming]

Dodger, for a while there I thought you were getting personal and describing either my tired old arse or my w_ _ _ ' _ !!! Whew, had me worried for a moment, was thinking you were psychic!!

[55 Fargo]

I'm shooting the first colour tomorrow morning, I'm finishing my blocking today, and it's just a never ending job if you want to make it that way....but if you were sane you would have never used the fenders I did or likely the one door, but that's the price for original. And as 48dodger said, I've heard some bad nightmares on brand new glass body parts.

Unless you have been doing this daily for a long time, you may not get this perfect. You will paint it, it will be fine and if somebody else doesn't like it, too bad so sad. Yor truck is a driver, not a pristine show truck, it will be a whole lot better than it ever was.

My truck was bruised on every panel, including a nightmare on the roof. I could easily spend 2 weeks on the fender I was working on, to get it much more level, but do not have the time or inclination right now, she is a whole lot better than before.You could alwasy get another door, at some point, and paint it and install.

 

Omg....fiberglass parts:......bad mounting points.....air pockets.....spider castings, whatever you wanna call it....warped wavy thru "flat" areas.....under reinforced....etc etc....nothing a body guy can't deal with, just a pain. 

 

 I have pictures.....just to painfull to post....lol

 

48D

Hey this may be true, but up north, you often deal with not only beat up stretched out tin, but some is rusted to no end.The Fender I am working required welding on most of the mounting edge, a lot of welding for old rusted fenders, not worth it.

I have seen glass fenders that were awful, and some very good, but I can only attest toa few occasions.

I often see those up here, with those 10k paint jobs, and then these individuals are afraid to drive these vehicles anywhere, to each their own. I still like original paint in good form, the best, but how many of these old trucks are ever like that..

[Jeff Balazs]

I took my truck down to bare metal but had a pro paint it. It was fairly straight and rust free so other than a couple of small areas I decided to leave it as it was. I like the scars it had and think they belong there as part of the story. There is no way any of us gets close to this age without some scars......and the same is true with our trucks. To my eye if they are too straight they look unnatural.

 

I did not keep track of the hours spent sanding and cleaning......but I wish I had a buck for each one.

It is all good whatever you choose to do. I don't even mind the PP treatment. At least it tells the story.

 

Jeff

[NiftyFifty]

Well today went horribly wrong, I'm starting to think I have issues with my air...I think it's got too many particles, and for some reason both air filters aren't catching it...,,I also had a lot of oil in y tank yesterday when I drained it...I left it open all night and filled it this morning before starting, but the the paint comes out rough every time. HVLP gun set to 21psi as it calls for, truck sanded with 400 as recommended by a painter, all cleaned with grease and wax remover, then tack clothed. Spray pattern set.....but it just seems to make like sand in the paint. This is a brand new gun, after I had the same issue with my old gun and my Monaco...but at that time I didn't have the gun set with the trigger open, so thought it was my issue, but this paint is doing the EXACT same thing, and the only similarity is the air...everything else is different.

[55 Fargo]

Well today went horribly wrong, I'm starting to think I have issues with my air...I think it's got too many particles, and for some reason both air filters aren't catching it...,,I also had a lot of oil in y tank yesterday when I drained it...I left it open all night and filled it this morning before starting, but the the paint comes out rough every time. HVLP gun set to 21psi as it calls for, truck sanded with 400 as recommended by a painter, all cleaned with grease and wax remover, then tack clothed. Spray pattern set.....but it just seems to make like sand in the paint. This is a brand new gun, after I had the same issue with my old gun and my Monaco...but at that time I didn't have the gun set with the trigger open, so thought it was my issue, but this paint is doing the EXACT same thing, and the only similarity is the air...everything else is different.

Do you have access to another compressor a portable, that can provide enough CFM for a test?

What were you shooting base? or a SS Urethane?

Is the paint going on super dry, wet or what before, pebbling up?

Solvent pop?

You have a Line dryer , water seperator, filter at gun handle/ Sounds like some serious contamination or solvent pop..

[48Dodger]

Rough like that sounds like the fluid tip is the wrong size......maybe. 

 

Three things (that matter) come out of the tip that should work in harmony...air...solids...and solvent.

 

@1.7 - 2.0 at 30 psi for primer because it has larger solids.

@1.5   at 28-30 psi  for base coat again, solid size is the factor

@ 1.3 at 30 for Clear coat......single stage for me is treated same as I do Clear, only diff is air pressure is at or 40 psi

 

A note about air pressure......most tips will have a psi stamped at the cap or nozzle that sez 10 psi or 15-20 psi.

This is confusing because no one has pressure gauge at the fluid tip to measure for that. The measurement is usually at the base of the gun or closer to the tank. There is much debate about how to determine the actual pressure at the tip.....just let me say "this much is true": the air pressure at the tip is LESS than whatever you set your valve at. If your gun sez 10 psi, and you set the value at 10......you do not have 10 psi at the fluid tip or cap. Most guys will set the pressure at 28-30 at the base of the gun.

 

A note about Paint flow......Open it up, all the way....its what you are doing....painting. Get the harmony you need based on GREAT paint flow. With the gun disconnected from the air and empty.....turn the flow knob all the way out, pull the trigger all the way back, hold it there. Twist the flow knob back in until the trigger starts to feel like its being pushed against your finger. NOW load the sucker up with paint and get the other two parts in harmony.

 

A note about Air.........its dirty. drain the tank and put a filter on the end of the gun along with any other help you can get. Use a new hose line or dedicated line. This is a single use deal for you most people, not a production line, but everyday use air hoses have crap in it from the tank, and rubber lines will give up that crap for any type of paint job. In some cases, I like to unplug my multi use 60 gallon tank to reduce the "kick on" cycle....why? Heat exchange creates a draw of the moisture that is still present. No need to have a constant 90 psi minumin for a single panel or spot job. The job would be finished before the tank pressure would be an issue. 

 

A note about pre testing before painting...... The two things I look for are pattern and viscosity. Don't blow out the middle of your pattern with to much air pressure, and how long can you paint in one location before sagging. I shoot paint on paper away from the job and keep looking for the breaking point for sagging.......it helps me with coverage and gun speed (movement..etc).

 

imo........

 

48D 

 

PS...my kids were chewing my ear when I wrote this and didn't have time to edited this post.....watch for the edits...lol           

[NiftyFifty]

I'm shooting Single stage acrylic enamel Restoration Shop brand, 8-1 with only hardner, no reducer. I've got a 1.4 tip, and my gun reads 21 psi max on the side, and most guys recommend 18-25 at the gun from what I've been reading and seeing in videos. It's stupid that they list psi at the nozzle when barely anyone can test that.

I had fluid wide open and set my fan from there, it's making about a 8-10" oval pattern in a spot test on my cardboard, and I was using some nice smooth cardboard to start testing. I have a particle and water remover right at the tank and a bulb filter right at the gun....but I went out and just hooked on my blow gun and I got a PILE of water passing the filter for a short time, and then it quit...so that might have built up in the hose while it sat. It was a hose I use all the time, but this same thing occurred last time and it was a new hose on my car. I do have a lot of oil build up in my filter at the compressor, not sure why it's getting into my air, other then I have a cylinder pushing it in from the compressor motor.

I could understand some over spray issues on sports where I'm fully extended, but the doors where I can two hand the gun and keep it exact are just as bad as the other spots. I did apply my first coat somewhat light, which I was told to do and come back with 2-3 wet coats after that. My concern is that no matter what it sprays this rough finish, even on the paper it just seems rough right off the hop...only time it isn't rough is if you just flood the spot, but then it's running like mad.

I'm at a loss....this little incident will cost me another $200 for more paint, and another 10 hours of sanding. Thank god I only painted the cab today...but I was worried I would have the same issues as last time....and did

[NiftyFifty]

Tough to get a pic of what it's doing as the truck is so shiney and I have a lot of light in the shop...but you can see the waves in the light

[55 Fargo]

I'm shooting Single stage acrylic enamel Restoration Shop brand, 8-1 with only hardner, no reducer. I've got a 1.4 tip, and my gun reads 21 psi max on the side, and most guys recommend 18-25 at the gun from what I've been reading and seeing in videos. It's stupid that they list psi at the nozzle when barely anyone can test that.

I had fluid wide open and set my fan from there, it's making about a 8-10" oval pattern in a spot test on my cardboard, and I was using some nice smooth cardboard to start testing. I have a particle and water remover right at the tank and a bulb filter right at the gun....but I went out and just hooked on my blow gun and I got a PILE of water passing the filter for a short time, and then it quit...so that might have built up in the hose while it sat. It was a hose I use all the time, but this same thing occurred last time and it was a new hose on my car. I do have a lot of oil build up in my filter at the compressor, not sure why it's getting into my air, other then I have a cylinder pushing it in from the compressor motor.

I could understand some over spray issues on sports where I'm fully extended, but the doors where I can two hand the gun and keep it exact are just as bad as the other spots. I did apply my first coat somewhat light, which I was told to do and come back with 2-3 wet coats after that. My concern is that no matter what it sprays this rough finish, even on the paper it just seems rough right off the hop...only time it isn't rough is if you just flood the spot, but then it's running like mad.

I'm at a loss....this little incident will cost me another $200 for more paint, and another 10 hours of sanding. Thank god I only painted the cab today...but I was worried I would have the same issues as last time....and did

Sorry to hear it didn't work out, only those of us who shoot paint can understand when something like this happens.

It sounds like you are doing everything right, but also sounds like oil and water are getting through somehow.

Hey you could always try International paints, in Winnipeg (Sheppard St), they carry an enamel "MC 200" tintable to most solid colors 50-70 per gallon. This product you can add a generic hardener, and thin with medium speed enamel reducer or xylene. It is a very tough shiny enamel, but not acrylic enamel, so most likely you don't want that type.

Ever try Paint FX on Mcphillips, he used to have some good deals on lower priced 1 stage Urethanes....good luck, hey I might be painting my truck fender tonight, still needs a quick block with 320, then will lay on the enamel with hardener...

How thick was your paint, are you sure this didn't need some reduction for a better wet flow, there is a balance of too thick, causing issues and too thin with sags and runs, sometime enamels paint can be hard to shoot for these reasons

Edited May 2, 2015 by Fargos-Go-Far

[Dave72dt]

What type and size of filter do you have on it?  The small ones you find over the counter at hardware stores and parts houses are not enough.  They will catch some oil and some water, some debris.  I'm now running a paint specific filter where the cartridge alone is in the 35 to 40 dollar range, used only for painting along with a dedicated hose.  I go back to the cheap, generic when using the power tools.  If you're running the small generic style, one other thing happens that I stumbled onto this winter.  All my air tools seemed to be losing power.  The sintered bronze filter will plug allowing air to go through but not in the volume needed, especially for painting.   Pulled that filter out and the tools had a new life to them, operating with the power and speed they should have.  HVLP requires a lot of volume.  You may not be getting enough air through the gun.  Turn you air volume up, not the pressure.  Your ops manual should have a conversion chart  with it for gun PSI to cap PSI.   My spray pattern will be in the 15" range and no wider than 2 ", full, consistent  pattern.