FREEZE PLUGS

[timkingsbury]

They are known by a lot of different names, frost plugs, freeze plugs, expansion plugs and a number of things.. 

 

The copper looking ones is a coating process or plating process that is put on to the metal and there are a number of different coatings used by different manufacturers.  If you were using only distilled water (and I am not suggesting you do that) then what the expansion plug is made of would be of less importance than when you use antifreeze if you lived where it never freezes.  The reason being is antfreeze is corrosive and a number of types of antifreeze have corroded these plugs in the past.   Now yes, if you live in a climate that freezes and if the temperature does not drop below the point that the antifreeze you are using fails then it will not be freezing that is the issue with these plugs.  And if it does drop below the temperature that your antifreeze can protect, it may push one of these plugs out and avoid damaging your block, but it may also crack the block elsewhere  because there is no guarantee that the freeze up only pushes on these plugs.

 

Personally I use as good a quality engine coolant as I can find (which yes could start another thread) and as I am sure you can see some of the plugs in your engine block are easy to get at and others are an absolute pain in the backside to get at. So for me, like the coolant I use the best plugs I can buy.  For me those are brass ! 

 

Your engine uses two different sizes..  3/4" and 1 5/8".

 

here is what I use:

 

 

Pioneer automotive

EP - 3 - B - 10

On the actual brass plug it says p3  3/4"

(they come qty 10 in a box) and

 

 &

 EP-14-B - 10   

 

which are   1 5/8"

 

there used to be tons of places that sold them in solid brass..  If people have other sources I would love to know as I can only find 1 supplier that still carries them. Lots can special order but only 1 seems to stock them. 

 

So not to be seen to be violating a policy of pitching product, I wont mention that supplier here. If you want to know drop me a line.

 

Tim

 

ps: I attached a picture of them installed in my Engine..

Unfortunately until someone sent me a note today I didn't realize   during my cut and paste job which came from 3 different times I started a note on my phone editor and then took from Microsoft word to the forum, I blew it..  lol  sorry.. 

 

So here is the edit it should have been.

 

They are known by a lot of different names, frost plugs, freeze plugs, expansion plugs and a number of things.. 

 

The copper looking ones is a coating process or plating process that is put on to the metal and there are a number of different coatings used by different manufacturers.  If you were using only distilled water (and I am not suggesting you do that) then what the expansion plug is made of would be of less importance than when you use antifreeze if you lived where it never freezes.  The reason being is antfreeze is corrosive and a number of types of antifreeze have corroded these plugs in the past.   Now yes, if you live in a climate that freezes and if the temperature does not drop below the point that the antifreeze you are using fails then it will not be freezing that is the issue with these plugs.  And if it does drop below the temperature that your antifreeze can protect, it may push one of these plugs out and avoid damaging your block, but it may also crack the block elsewhere  because there is no guarantee that the freeze up only pushes on these plugs.

 

Personally I use as good a quality engine coolant as I can find (which yes could start another thread) and as I am sure you can see some of the plugs in your engine block are easy to get at and others are an absolute pain in the backside to get at. So for me, like the coolant I use the best plugs I can buy.  For me those are brass ! 

 

Your engine uses two different sizes..  3/4" and 1 5/8

 

That I don’t see in your picture. The 1 5/8" being the big size ones there should be 5 of them on the drivers side of the block. That is on the small block (23 1/3" USA engine) and your 1 3/8" plug at the end by the  camshaft and 1 5/8" on the water jacket... where on the big block (25 1/2" Canadian Engine) there is an extra 1 3/8" block on the end for an oil galley, along with the 1 3/8" plug at the camshaft and 1 5/8" on the water jacket.  Then there is one on the head which we rarely touch.. There are I believe 3 or 4 different sizes for that one..  When I saw you pile there seemed to be too many 1 3/8" which may be what is required for really old blocks. I would have to go dig around to find out as there are some older engines between my and my buddy’s shop... and there is one 3/4" plug in the 3 speed transmission case that you need to be careful if your replacing it.

 

Of the ones you don’t show in your picture

 

here is what I use: 

Pioneer automotive

EP - 3 - B - 10

On the actual brass plug it says p3  3/4"

(they come qty 10 in a box) and

 &

 EP-14-B - 10   

 

which are   1 5/8"

 

there used to be tons of places that sold them in solid brass..  If people have other sources I would love to know as I can only find 1 supplier that still carries them. Lots can special order but only 1 seems to stock them. 

So not to be seen to be violating a policy of pitching product, I wont mention that supplier here. If you want to know drop me a line.

Tim

ps: I attached a picture of them installed in my Engine

[timkingsbury]

Unfortunately until someone sent me a note today I didn't realize   during my cut and paste job which came from 3 different times I started a note on my phone editor and then took from Microsoft word to the forum, I blew it..  lol  sorry.. 

 

So here is the edit it should have been.

 

They are known by a lot of different names, frost plugs, freeze plugs, expansion plugs and a number of things.. 

 

The copper looking ones is a coating process or plating process that is put on to the metal and there are a number of different coatings used by different manufacturers.  If you were using only distilled water (and I am not suggesting you do that) then what the expansion plug is made of would be of less importance than when you use antifreeze if you lived where it never freezes.  The reason being is antfreeze is corrosive and a number of types of antifreeze have corroded these plugs in the past.   Now yes, if you live in a climate that freezes and if the temperature does not drop below the point that the antifreeze you are using fails then it will not be freezing that is the issue with these plugs.  And if it does drop below the temperature that your antifreeze can protect, it may push one of these plugs out and avoid damaging your block, but it may also crack the block elsewhere  because there is no guarantee that the freeze up only pushes on these plugs.

 

Personally I use as good a quality engine coolant as I can find (which yes could start another thread) and as I am sure you can see some of the plugs in your engine block are easy to get at and others are an absolute pain in the backside to get at. So for me, like the coolant I use the best plugs I can buy.  For me those are brass ! 

 

Your engine uses two different sizes..  3/4" and 1 5/8

 

That I don’t see in your picture. The 1 5/8" being the big size ones there should be 5 of them on the drivers side of the block. That is on the small block (23 1/3" USA engine) and your 1 3/8" plug at the end by the  camshaft and 1 5/8" on the water jacket... where on the big block (25 1/2" Canadian Engine) there is an extra 1 3/8" block on the end for an oil galley, along with the 1 3/8" plug at the camshaft and 1 5/8" on the water jacket.  Then there is one on the head which we rarely touch.. There are I believe 3 or 4 different sizes for that one..  When I saw you pile there seemed to be too many 1 3/8" which may be what is required for really old blocks. I would have to go dig around to find out as there are some older engines between my and my buddy’s shop... and there is one 3/4" plug in the 3 speed transmission case that you need to be careful if your replacing it.

 

Of the ones you don’t show in your picture

 

here is what I use: 

Pioneer automotive

EP - 3 - B - 10

On the actual brass plug it says p3  3/4"

(they come qty 10 in a box) and

 &

 EP-14-B - 10   

 

which are   1 5/8"

 

there used to be tons of places that sold them in solid brass..  If people have other sources I would love to know as I can only find 1 supplier that still carries them. Lots can special order but only 1 seems to stock them. 

So not to be seen to be violating a policy of pitching product, I wont mention that supplier here. If you want to know drop me a line.

Tim

ps: I attached a picture of them installed in my Engine

 

Now since I posted that, I looked up the other numbers for the pioneer brass part numbers... It was only the 3/4" and the 1 5/8" brass ones I had on the top of my head because we just recently talked to our supplier about getting an order for stock. I am not sure if they will sell less than boxes of 10 which for sizes such as the 3/4" one you may not want to but a box just to have 1 plug. 

 

Again glad to help.. sorry my whole message didn't get transferred... my fault and I didn't look close enough after I cut and pasted.. lol But the good news is the person who had the original question got all the information, and the suppliers name and contact details.

 

Tim

[timkingsbury]

I have never seen a 3/4" core plug fit any Mopar flathead...

 

The Dodge and Plymouth use a 1-3/16" core plug up on the head.

 

The DeSoto and Chrysler use a 1-3/8" core plug on the head

 

All the others are 1-5/8" as mentioned. Except the rear cam plug OE is brass and measures 1-3/8"

 

The bell housing rear 1-5/8" core plugs also were brass and doubled up from the factory .

 

The front of engine hidden 1-5/8" core plug behind the engine mount plate was brass  as original equipment.

 

Bob

That is ok Bob... that is likely good news.. It means you have never had to do a rebuild of a 3 speed standard or overdrive transmission !

[timkingsbury]

I also have never seen a 3/4" Welch plug anywhere on the car. If I recall the size correctly 1" plugs are used to seal the king pins on a P-15. Some but not all master cylinders also use a 1" plug.

 

 

Lol that is ok Don..  could it be you don't really know everything about these cars ?    Lol.. Given we lost you when you changed from Mopar to a Bow-Tie transmission, I guess we will give you a pass, but check the parts you pulled out of at least one of your cars, and that was likely in every 3 speed standard mopar since at least 1936... and you will find a 3/4" plug..    Believe it or Not !

[Dave72dt]

Now since I posted that, I looked up the other numbers for the pioneer brass part numbers... It was only the 3/4" and the 1 5/8" brass ones I had on the top of my head because we just recently talked to our supplier about getting an order for stock. I am not sure if they will sell less than boxes of 10 which for sizes such as the 3/4" one you may not want to but a box just to have 1 plug. 

 

 

 

Tim

the suppliers may only sell in quantities of ten but often the parts houses will have partial boxes of them and will sell individually

[Dodgeb4ya]

That is ok Bob... that is likely good news.. It means you have never had to do a rebuild of a 3 speed standard or overdrive transmission !

I have rebuilt dozens of ovedrives and dozens of M4/M5 and M6's.

As for the 3/4 core plug I stated none were used on the flathead 218/230 engines. So true.

You will also find a 3/8" stamped plug on the plymouth cars and others.

[Don Coatney]

Lol that is ok Don..  could it be you don't really know everything about these cars ?    Lol.. Given we lost you when you changed from Mopar to a Bow-Tie transmission, I guess we will give you a pass, but check the parts you pulled out of at least one of your cars, and that was likely in every 3 speed standard mopar since at least 1936... and you will find a 3/4" plug..    Believe it or Not !

LOL could it be that George Asche gave you the information on the transmission 3/4" plugs LOL.

 

I don't believe I ever made a claim to know everything about these cars.

 

Also I don't know who "we" is and I certainly don't know how "we" could lose something they never had.

[_shel_ny]

Almost time to zip the flies back up

[ptwothree]

"The reason being is antfreeze is corrosive and a number of types of antifreeze have corroded these plugs in the past."

 

                 And I always thought that this stuff has rust inhibitors and such to prevent rust.....goes to show,  you never stop learnin'!

[Dodgeb4ya]

Antifreeze is NOT corrosive if changed as required.

Antifreeze has anti- corrosion inhibitors in it to minimize cooling system corrosion.

Improper and poor maintenence causes soft plug damage.

 

As for copper expandable type soft plugs..

The actual outer plug is all copper. The rear cup that expands the outer core plug is copper plated steel.... as a stonger metal cup is required that won't cave in as it expands the outer plug.

 

I leave my fly down for faster service!

Bob

[desoto1939]

This is why we chnage the antifrezze in our car every couple of years.  The antifrezze still might work when you take a reading but the antirust inhibitor is what is really lossing its ability to stop the rust action.  So every year I put a pint of GUNK Water pump and radiator rust inhibotor into the radiator. This keeps the rust inhibtors upto snuff.  Cost a couple of bucks but is work the time and money for me.

 

Rich HArtung

Desoto1939@aol.com

[Plymouthy Adams]

^{isn't it on the overkill side to do both, change the anti-freeze and boost the inhibitors...I figure one or the other but not  both...I would see where you may get a warm fuzzy but that would be the better effect I am thinking}

Edited March 4, 2015 by Plymouthy Adams

[timkingsbury]

LOL could it be that George Asche gave you the information on the transmission 3/4" plugs LOL.

 

I don't believe I ever made a claim to know everything about these cars.

 

Also I don't know who "we" is and I certainly don't know how "we" could lose something they never had.

1)  In this case, no sir, I got that right from the Chrysler engineering manual

2) your comment " I also have never seen a 3/4" Welch plug anywhere on the car"..   and 18,625 posts which is better than 1/2 of the total topics on the entire board, umm I apologize, maybe I drew the wrong conclusion.

3) In this case we would be "mopar enthusiasts" and after that while I am far from a grammar major, your attempt to be witty, looses me, but I guess that is my loss, although as on new we are done with this topic... although I am sure you are not..  

 

4) Point made, I will have no further comments on the topic... night

Edited March 5, 2015 by timkingsbury