Dismantling a dodge 1953 Brake Master Cylinder

[Geekay]

How do i get the piston/spring/valve out?

I have removed the "lock wire" and "stop" however cannot budge the "cup"

Is the cup screwed on or pressed on?

Tried to twist it off with mulit grips but no go.

Pistion seems to be seized as well i.e. not moving.

The cylinder reservoir was dry when i removed it so bound to be "rusted" inside too.

 

Pic below of the Master cylinder sent to me Desoto Dav (thanks Davin) and of the MC.

 

[NiftyFifty]

Buy a new one, when they get old and siezed like that they will just never be right, even with a rebuild kit. You can still pick them up for just over $100 in the US.

You've done everything right....it's just plain stuck

[Geekay]

Thanks 4mula.

The article is helpful.

 

After soaking the MC in WD40 for a couple of days the piston now moves smoothly in and out, and appears to have sufficient resistance to work as a pump.so i will just clean it up as far as I can and put it back on.

 

Yesterday I removed the 4 brake shoes etc and today will check out the the pistons in each brake.

 

Then, put it all back together, add the brake fluid and see what works (and what doesn't)

 

Buying a new one will always be my last resort, just because i am determined to keep it very original and want the satisfaction of fixing stuff, even if it takes ages. I just have this notion that to restore it does not just include sending "bits" away for someone else to fix.

 

 

My aim is to drive it up and down the road around town with as little replacements as possible.

Then, I will review the whole project and do the more serious work (like engine reco etc) in need to get it to a point where I can go away for a weekend in it, like driving a few hundred miles.

[NiftyFifty]

I understand the originality part, but brakes go beyond that necessity sometimes...just make sure it not only pumps up...but holds the pressure on a really hard stop. Minimum is a rebuild kit on it, but you can't even know forsure you have the original MC either? It may have been changed in its earlier life. I just think brakes are something that upgrades are never a bad thing.

Good luck, hope it all works out

[Jeff Balazs]

Geekay;

I would think that at the very least a close inspection of the inner surfaces and a rebuild kit are in order. It could be in much worse shape than you might imagine. Beside the obvious safety issues.......it is in a location that makes it a real PITA to work on. Trust me this is one item you want to get right the first time.

 

Jeff

[Jerry Roberts]

It would be best to take the master cylinder apart . If you want to keep it , you can have it sleeved in brass or stainless ( if necessary ) . I had mine sleeved in brass and it recently started to leak ( after 8 years ) so I just put in a kit . I also wonder if the WD40 will do any damage to the rubber parts , oil will definitely do damage to the rubber . When you need to lubricate the parts for assembly use brake fluid . 

[John-T-53]

If it was that rusted on the outside, and dry on the inside, it's probably not even remotely rebuildable. I'll bet the bore is pitted beyond what a hone can fix.

 

Get a new MC and forget about it! Not worth the risk.

[Geekay]

Okay message received and you all make sense, brakes are very important and they are a PITA to work on.

 

I will take it to the local brake guy to look at first to see if a kit is appropriate or just buy a new one.

[Dave72dt]

Give some serious thought to replacing the lines and all the hoses as well. Consider them as maintenance items that would have been replaced as needed anyway. Now they're old and in unknown condition internally, regardless of how good they may look on the outside and are a safety hazard. Belts and hoses on the engine as well. You don't want to get stranded by failing to take a few preventive maintenance jobs.

[NiftyFifty]

Yep, I gave my truck one pump when I backed it off the trailer when it came home and it blew one of the rubber lines apart...Id hate that to happen at highway or in traffic

[Geekay]

Spent the weekend on the brakes and acheived the following:

Removed the 4 backing plates

Removed all the "pistons" (all were seized) and rubbers, springs etc.  The pistons were all an red anodized aluminium. Are they the originals?

Removed all lines, metal and rubber.  All the metal lines are clear, but the rubber lines all clogged.

Removed the axle seals on rear drums.  I notice one was just a thin plastic/rubber seal with a metal outer, and one, I assume the original, more robust with the usual "spring ring" on the inner seal.

 

On the front backing plates there is a very thin metal cover plate that is rivetted on where the axle enters.  Both in poor condition so I assume I should replace these too.

 

 

So it is going to be a complete brake rebuild.

 

After thinking about what the advice was it made sense.  No point doing a lot of work restoring it only to take it out for a drive and write it off because of brake failure.

 

Cheers and thanks.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Geekay

[NiftyFifty]

Good luck, and hope we wernt too pushy, but better to send you in the right direction then no brakes and head the wrong one! LOL

[ggdad1951]

red anodized cups are not going to be the originals.

[Desotodav]

red anodized cups are not going to be the originals.

 

You know we do things different here downunder Mark!... I have seen red anodized cups in a few trucks here - ones in attached photo from my blue 52 truck...

[Young Ed]

I've seen the red cups in many cars too but I also don't believe them to be original.

[Jeff Balazs]

Geekay;

I know it is a lot of work but I feel certain you are doing the right thing for the long run.

I kinda doubt that the red pistons are originals. We sort of take coatings like this for granted these days but it wasn't that long ago that they became common place. I think back in the mid 70's anodized finishes started to be used in some high end aftermarket parts but I can't remember seeing anodized red finishes until some time in the mid to late 80's. I am just guessing but I would think those pistons are probably something that was fabbed as replacements by a local supplier in Oz. Maybe as late as the early 90's?  If your truck sat for a long while even something that late could deteriorate badly in a brake system. Once moisture get's into the system that is not in regular use corrosion is right around the corner. To be really frank I would not even consider reusing any of the old metal lines.....clear or not. There could be quite a bit of scale etc......lurking in them and it just isn't worth the potential for contamination of your new system.

 

Jeff

[ggdad1951]

Geekay;

I know it is a lot of work but I feel certain you are doing the right thing for the long run.

I kinda doubt that the red pistons are originals. We sort of take coatings like this for granted these days but it wasn't that long ago that they became common place. I think back in the mid 70's anodized finishes started to be used in some high end aftermarket parts but I can't remember seeing anodized red finishes until some time in the mid to late 80's. I am just guessing but I would think those pistons are probably something that was fabbed as replacements by a local supplier in Oz. Maybe as late as the early 90's? If your truck sat for a long while even something that late could deteriorate badly in a brake system. Once moisture get's into the system that is not in regular use corrosion is right around the corner. To be really frank I would not even consider reusing any of the old metal lines.....clear or not. There could be quite a bit of scale etc......lurking in them and it just isn't worth the potential for contamination of your new system.

Jeff

To expand, when I tore down FEF I found 3 red anodized cups... the rest were not. Hence my comment they were not original.