Need Advice and lots of Help

[Niel Hoback]

  They used to say that about me.

[Labrauer]

Thanks guys for all the information and a special thanks to Shel_ny on the information he provided on getting the broken bolts out. It all makes since on how this would work. 

 

Thanks to everyone that has posted to this thread,

 

labrauer-Larry

[Grdpa's 50 Dodge]

Those broken head bolts.  Did you use a punch and hammer liberally before you  tried turning??.  I would use KROIL penetrating  oil for several days,,interspersed with long punch and hammer whacks like driving a huge nail.  the vibration sends the pen oil deeper and knocks the rust loose,,,the grip.  Looks like you might be able to get  a vice grip or pipe wrench on studs as they LOOK above block.  Hot wrench may work also,,,always got it with hammer and oil.  YOUR mileage may vary!!!

 

I didnt realize Shel had posted that link about bolt removal.  I second that article,,,throw the easy outs away.  If all else fails or you dont have a welder,,,here,,,we take it to a local blacksmith and he can get the worst ones out very quickly .  he uses the technique in that article,,,doesnt always use the washer but uses the nut and a wire welder.  Point is find an old school welder in your area if your not able to.  Uses the heat and weld not sticking to cast mostly.  Oil on a hot bolt is wasting your oil and time,,,it just goes poof.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Grdpa's 50 Dodge

[greg g]

see if you can thread a nut on the threads remaining above the block, and then weld the nut to the remains of head bolt.  After you have followed the advice above.

[Niel Hoback]

Your best friend; http://www.midwayautosupply.com/Kano-Kroil-Penetrating-liquid-KROIL/dp/B000F09CF4   

[Labrauer]

Well guys I have tried the method of welding a washer and nut to the broken bolt and the weld held good but the darn bolt broke off a little more making it more difficult to do again. I am going to try the second bolt maybe tomorrow and see if it will come out with this method. I have not tried to use a hammer and punch to beat on the bolt yet but I will try it the next couple of days and try and fine that kroil penetrating oil to help on the way.

 

Anyone else got any suggestions that might help not that I don't think that the method I'm using won't I am just open to all the suggestions I can get at this time in the ball game.

 

 It is hot as heck down here in Texas being 97* so I am going to have to find a nice fan. You just stand outside and the sweat just comes rolling off your body. It is a lot better and just a little cooler at night to work but my wife gets on to me for staying up all night and then all the next day too. Women what would we do without them???

 

Thanks guys once again,

labrauer

Larry

[soth122003]

Hey Larry,

 

Sorry I didn't respond sooner. The Seafoam is a cleaner. for gas and oil applications. My car hadn't been run in quite a while so I added Seafoam to the gas and oil to clean out any sludge in the system. You can get it at any auto parts store. I used about 2/3 of the bottle for the gas and 1/3 for the engine. I also put a quart of slick 50 in the engine to help beef up any wear spots it might have. You can google seafoam and read about it's uses on the net, and see if you might want to use it. 

 

Joe

[Dave72dt]

Weld a second washer on top of the first one and then run a second bead around the center of it again. Don't wait for it to cool off before that second trip around. You've got to get the remainder of the stud red and drive the heat down into it. When it turns blue, get your pair of pliers on it and try working it out. You can feel the limits of how hard to pull or push with a pliers. Impact has no feeling and won't tell you when to reverse the pressure. The secret is getting the stud hot quickly and as far down as you can before it starts transferring heat to the block so crank the heat up on the welder and pours the coals to it. Once it starts to move, you can use any penetrating oil or some candle wax to assist removal.

You could try drilling a small hole through the center of the stud so it has a place to shrink back into. By doing so, you should be able to find out if the stud has been bottomed out in the hole too. Those come out twice as hard as the others

[janan5243]

Weld nut on bolt. Heat nut & bolt. Apply ice to nut & bolt right away (dry ice works best but difficult to handle & get in small quantity) try to remove. Pro welder taught me that. works 99% of the time. Of course,don't compromise block with heat.

Edited July 31, 2014 by janan5243

[Labrauer]

Thanks guys for all the responses to my deli-ma in getting these broken off bolts out. I today put some of the Kroil on the two  to let sit and see what I can do. I have everything crossed hoping that I will have luck. If I don't I don't know what I will do. I have tried to drill the center of one bolt and heck those bolts are as hard as rocks or should I say diamonds. I drilled and it was getting me nowhere just put a little dent in the top of the bolt. I have to go buy a new drill bit with a different taper to it as the ones I have don't seem to be drilling anything. If I had a drill with a magnetic base so I could have it stay still on the drilling it sure would be a lot better and that way I could put more pressure on the drill bit even though I have broken two of them already trying to drill one bolt. In all may days I have never had such a tight stubborn bolt to get out. 

[Don Coatney]

Try a left handed drill bit. If it bites the broken bolt may unscrew itself.

 

 

 

 

[William Davey]

You should be able to rent a mag-base drill to help drill the broken bolts.  Sure would be cheaper than a ruined stud hole in the block.

[Niel Hoback]

Use the Kroil again.  Take twice a day and call me in the morning.

[BigDaddyO]

www.kanolabs.com

[Grdpa's 50 Dodge]

the hammering will have twice the effect of just kroil.  It puts the kroil down there where you really need it worst.

[Labrauer]

Well guys I went a head and pulled the engine out of the car and I am glad I did. I had a leaking freeze plug right where you couldn't get to it at least you wouldn't be able to get a swing on a hammer to seat the new one. Taking the freeze plugs out I found that two of the five on the side of the engine was completely plugged up with looks like carbon or something else. I took a small screw drive and dug what I could out and applied air to the rest. The holes now are open with the blowing and the I am going to find an engine repair shop to get the block magi-flux, cleaned along with the head. 

 

I haven't gotten those broken off head bolts out of the block yet. I have soaked them with the oil that you all recommend and they haven't bulged a bit.I have broken off five different drill bits trying to drill. I am thinking that if I take the engine 

 

If I take the engine to the engine rebuild shop I am hoping that they will be able to remove the broken bolts.Now that that is out of the way I am trying to find out how to remove the water distribution tube. I have pulled, tugged, and did just about everything I can think of to remove it but it will not budge. Have any ideas?

 

Next question if I take the engine to the rebuild shop should I take the engine all apart like taking the timing chain off, water pump, oil pan, ect first or leave it all together?

 

Thanks as always for the replies,

Larry

[Don Coatney]

Do you plan to do the re-assembly or have the machine shop do it?

[DonaldSmith]

Don Coatney's question reminds me of the time when I was a youngster, and My dad encountered something that needed fixing.  

I asked him, "Are you going to fix it yourself, or have a man do it?"  He took it funny.  

To me, a man was someone you paid to fix something that you didn't want to fix, or couldn't fix, yourself. 

[ptwothree]

If the shop is going to completely assemble the engine then you need to take the whole lump to them and hope they don't "lose" to many parts along the way.

 

If they will only do the machining, cleaning and broken bolt removal or, re-assemble the block, crank, pistons, cam, timing chain and bearings, then strip it down to the bare block and hope for the best.  

 

Also, the more stuff you break of in those broken studs, the more $ it will cost to make it right.  How this project turns out relies a lot on competent the machine shop guys are.  Good Luck!!

[Labrauer]

I plan on the reassembling the engine my self after the block and head gets cleaned and re-serfist. I have done engines before in my much younger years on v8's and ford 6 cylinders but never an old 48 Flathead. I have read many articles on doing it and all it entailed but never tried it so I may have to get some answers from you guys if I get stuck. I have just about all the gaskets I need to do it except for some that has to do with the oil pump. 

 

I have decided not to over size the pistons as the cylinder walls look very good I think they just need a good going over with a hone and they will be fine. The piston rods look good as well as the other parts internally on the engine. I still haven't been abl to remove the water tube yet so I am hoping that when the block gets boiled at the shop it will be able to be taken out and replaced and by the way can you leave it out and if so will it affect the engine in any way?

 

 I have an overdrive transmission that I will go back with when I place the engine back into the car with a new clutch and pressure plate, through out baring, pilot bushing ect. I am also getting the flywheel reserficed too so with any luck the old coupe will be back on the road soon.  Not quite sure just how to hook the thing up but I know that George Asche has supplied the instructions with the tyranny I got from him last year. I wanted to hook it up the way that I saw and read of one guy that I think was put here on the forum with the kick in and out on the gear shift knob with the little button from radio shack. I have already drilled out the knob and put in the little button ran the wires through the shifting lever and out the fire wall. I just need to find the article on the way it should be hooked up to transmission. If anyone knows the article I am talking about and has it please send it to me. 

 

I am attaching some pics of the engine after I took it out of the car and dissembled it.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Labrauer

[Labrauer]

Here is a couple of more pics of the engine tear down and if you look closely you can see that this block has been welded up some time before. It is just full of welds on the side and across the end. Wonder why?