Wayfaring Stranger Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) I have a 49 sedan with a shot strait 6. I want to modernize its ability but not cut it up. ie front discs but stay away from the steering (though i would like a collapsible colum if reasonably doable), i dont know if all the engines in the poll will work and if you select other, please post your engine and i will add it to the poll. ive left off the 5.7 hemi cause it wont fit and the stock strait 6 is a non option. Edited July 26, 2014 by Wayfaring Stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plyroadking Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Rebuild the straight six, you'll be money ahead, why mess with a good design? If you want a modern driving experience then take your new car to town. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayfaring Stranger Posted July 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Rebuild the straight six, you'll be money ahead, why mess with a good design? If you want a modern driving experience then take your new car to town. Please don't start with this crap. I was hoping for real feedback not blow hards who either can't read or can't control themselves from spamming the thread with the 180 out of the question. There's always gotta be one, lets hope your the only one. Last time, say it with me .....NOT AN OPTION. I'm sure there is a "why the strait six is in harmonic balance with the universe" post somewhere in here, go find it! ....or follow directions and stay on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Whoa! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Rebuild the straight six, you'll be money ahead, why mess with a good design? If you want a modern driving experience then take your new car to town. Well said!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Keith Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Wayfarers with the original motor have good value. Its your car do what you want. If the car is in relatively good shape otherwise, I'd keep the flathead six. After you've spent thousand of bucks, a new Kia would out handle the car, and likely have as much or greater power after you've done the motor swap. Do what you want, for me an old car is a refuge from the gadgets and the technology that I deal with all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayfaring Stranger Posted July 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Sorry if that was too harsh, I'm not against the strait 6, in fact I have one( though its 12v tis tis.) so I'm gonna take all the strait6 engine/trans etc from the parts car and keep it for the "posterity" of the stock one. I'd like to build the parts car for 1000 mile trips which I like to do strait thru. And with a heater. My stock wayfarer didn't come with one and thus I would have to cut the hole thru the firewall and don't want to do that for the same reason some people want all cars stock.... or just build out the parts car! As a sorta mopar resto-mod-rod....or just crush the rest of the parts car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Sorry if that was too harsh, I'm not against the strait 6, in fact I have one( though its 12v tis tis.) so I'm gonna take all the strait6 engine/trans etc from the parts car and keep it for the "posterity" of the stock one. I'd like to build the parts car for 1000 mile trips which I like to do strait thru. And with a heater. My stock wayfarer didn't come with one and thus I would have to cut the hole thru the firewall and don't want to do that for the same reason some people want all cars stock.... or just build out the parts car! As a sorta mopar resto-mod-rod....or just crush the rest of the parts car? Now that sounds like a plan. Keep the wayfarer as is and build the shell of the parts car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayfaring Stranger Posted July 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 They are both wayfarers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwrstory Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 In support of Wayfaring Stranger, I identify with his idea of building something different but within parameters he has established. WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT????? He is looking for a little input from those of us who might offer some experienced, constructive and/or objective opinion. Can't we respect that request. Those who are predisposed to stock, or flat head only, or Mopar only, need not chastise. "Let it go" and let others of us enjoy the dialog that this subject may instigate. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Please don't start with this . . . Please keep it civil. In general, a reasonable rule is if you don't like a post then just don't respond to it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayfaring Stranger Posted July 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 In support of Wayfaring Stranger, I identify with his idea of building something different but within parameters he has established. WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT????? He is looking for a little input from those of us who might offer some experienced, constructive and/or objective opinion. Can't we respect that request. Those who are predisposed to stock, or flat head only, or Mopar only, need not chastise. "Let it go" and let others of us enjoy the dialog that this subject may instigate. Thank you. i spent a lot of time reading 7 page post like this that never got anywhere, hope this one can root out some answers. from all that reading there seems to be quite a few people that are intrested in such builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayfaring Stranger Posted July 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Please keep it civil. In general, a reasonable rule is if you don't like a post then just don't respond to it Sorry, in my defense i was told "go take a long Kia for a short town."...more or less. Made me get all Swayze like, "No one puts Baby in a Kia and make her ride in town." Not like i went all Roadhouse Swayze. mean while T4, V6, Penta*...other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayfaring Stranger Posted July 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 maybe i am misinterpreting this: P15-D24 Forum All topics discussing mopar cars from the late 30's to late 50s. Chrysler, De Soto, Dodge and Plymouth cars with stock flatheads to highly modified are welcome!does this mean; stock flatheads to highlymodified [flatheads] are welcome. OR stock flatheads to high modified [non stock] are welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meadowbrook Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Have you thought of an inline 6 from a 90's Cherokee? About 190 hp. Don't know if it's too long though. Thought it may not sound too good, the 2.4 turbo idea also seems interesting and is likely to fit easiest. Plus I believe it's less money than a Pentastar Maybe also a venerable 80's 2.5 turbo used in som many K cars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barabbas Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 I can't help you Wayfaring, I've never done an engine swap, but the idea of a Turbo 4 is very interesting. I've seen many posts here about larger engines that have to be shoehorned in but no posts about a modern 4 cylinder--I'd sure like to see you try that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayfaring Stranger Posted July 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 The jeep i6 I left off because,I believe, it is to long and requires moving the rad forward or opening up the fire wall. The low horsepower, all be it close, and the length made me leave it off the list. If it made 250 hp easily I would consider it or if it fit like a glove with just some motor mounts, but like the slant6, I felt it underpowered for its effort. The 2.5T kcar, from what i read, is well under 200 hp. There was a 2.2L turbo3 that put out 224, the lotus one, in a few 91-93 dodges and I would add it to the poll, but if I go 4T I would lean towards the newer, such as the pt cruser 4ts. I used the 04-05 dodge neon srt4 because I thought 1. Space wasn't a distinction between the 4t, all being about the same small. 2. Finding a swap with less wear would be easier 3. There is something "nostalgically" correct with a neon engine in a wayfarer. Or a pt cruser engine in a ply BC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfarer Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Certainly an interesting topic with the potential use of late model, normally computer controlled whiz-bang engines. Oh, the 5.7 does fit, there are examples, but nothing is going to be a bolt-in...well, except for 'that' engine... The LA small block is about as easy as a swap will get and if you go to the Magnum series they are certainly spirited. The new generation of v-6 engines are also powerful, but highly complex in terms of the computers, and not likely inexpensive. How about the 4.7? Millions of them on the road, very durable, quite powerful, not-so-large-displacement, same concerns with computer controllers. I'll stay tuned for late breaking news....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Douglas Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 I cannot address your body/frame style as I have only Desoto's. That said, Sondra and I are planning on putting some serious miles in a few years on the big Desoto. I looked into everything from the SBC to the inline 4-5-6 Chevy/GMC engines (Vortex) of the 2000's and most things in between. The problem I kept running into was that in every case, I hade to cut up the steering, firewall, or frame to get them to transplant "Well". In a couple of instances they could be made to fit but long term maintenance and other issues would be not fun on the road away from home. I came to the conclusion that unless you want to cut up the body, frame, steering you are better off staying with the stock engine block. What I am working on, slowly, is to build a 265 Chrysler that has computerized fuel injection, a very small (4 PSI) turbo and a modern transmission with overdrive. I am looking at mating up one of several different transmissions to the stock bell housing and have not decided on which one yet. On the steering issue, I may go the Don Smith route and use a late 60's GM power steering box as it will fit my large Desoto pitman arm as they have the same spline. I am sure that the P15-D24's are not the same. But, if you dig like Don did you may find something similar. If you cut the column and fix it to the dash and have a set of joints on the way to the box, odds are in a head on the joints will fail and you will not suffer the "spear in the chest" problem. You can get an adaptor plate from Wilcap today that will put a GM trans behind the flathead. I want to try and use the stock bell housing. If not, I will go the Wilcap route. My point is that you can have your cake and eat it too if you are willing to take some time and think through a serious "upgrade" to the flathead six. The one engine/trans I would like to know about in these engine bays is the early slant 6. Will they fit without cutting the firewall, inner fenders, or anything else? Good luck. James 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwrstory Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 I have read this thread several times and focused on understanding your goals. I get it and I applaud your perseverance! Please press on. The folks who are interested will continue to support with information, questions and "atta boys". Those who are rubbed the wrong way will go silent. The idea of an old car with updated and adequate power that fits, w/o major surgery, in the hole available sounds like a fun and satisfying project. It's something where you can learn while you solve the "build issues" and then enjoy the driving experience with something different. All that said,.....I did the "shoehorn bogey" with no regrets. Not for you, however, one item that may apply to your search is that the stock radiator can be moved forward by several inches by simply reversing the "radiator hoop". It was the means by which Mopar accommodated the longer 6 cyl engine and that has been done by several on this forum. The extra inches may allow you to consider other engine options 'tho the Slant-6 is still too long. Somehow I'd lean toward the Turbo 4 cylinder. Mercurys, Lincolns and I believe Fords had them. I'd guess you could get the engine, trans and computer in one package, maybe even get a whole car for cheap. The wrecking yards are full of them and I'd guess that parts and service are readily available. The challenge for me would be the electronics. 'Tho must be lotsa YouTube info on that. Success at clearing the electronics hurdle would be very satisfying. Good luck. Don't take too bigga bite for your abilities. And, keep us posted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayfaring Stranger Posted July 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Certainly an interesting topic with the potential use of late model, normally computer controlled whiz-bang engines. Oh, the 5.7 does fit, there are examples, but nothing is going to be a bolt-in...well, except for 'that' engine... The LA small block is about as easy as a swap will get and if you go to the Magnum series they are certainly spirited. The new generation of v-6 engines are also powerful, but highly complex in terms of the computers, and not likely inexpensive. How about the 4.7? Millions of them on the road, very durable, quite powerful, not-so-large-displacement, same concerns with computer controllers. I'll stay tuned for late breaking news....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayfaring Stranger Posted July 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Good stuff. Thank you! The 5.7l : I did read the article on the wayfarer from Utah with a 5.7. But they widened the frame I believe. Also having it so tight you need a hoist to maintain it, defeats my purpose. I know nothing will bolt on, just wanted the ability for i(or someone else) to go back to the original 'that'head 6 without that much effort. In regards to the LAs I would like to narrow it down to one, the 318, 340, or 360. All would be fine hp wise, which fits "best" would be the decider IMO. I will add that ? to the poll. The 4.7L, my question is the same as the LA , "what are the refabs?". Is regular maintenance an issue? Ty WS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwrstory Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) If you'd consider the Mopar LA engine series, that's a bit more of a challenge but very doable. You'll need to figger a trans mount but thats probaly the case with any mod you do. The upside of the 318 is smaller displacement, maybe a bit better mileage, the upside of the 360 more inches and a bit more power. All are readily available w/transmissions in used cars or wrecking yards. That's what I did but took it a bit farther. Check "I'm Back" http://p15-d24.com/topic/22985-im-back/page-22#entry373806 If you decide to go that way, feel free to PM questions or ask for more pics. Edited July 25, 2014 by mrwrstory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayfaring Stranger Posted July 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 I did a little googling in regards to the turbo 4s. The pt cruiser GTs and dodge neons SRTs had different configurations, but I feel are both likely to fit. The neons were really a test platform for the 07 Dodge Calliber SRT roll out. They seem to have made some changes as the neons had 224 hp and the Calibers 280+. My guess is all of them have similar things to overcome, mainly rear wheel drive trans set up and overcoming the computers. I do think the drifter community is very tech savvy and likely a good source for these answers. I'm still waiting for someone to say "steering colum...won't fit." In case they do,... ..., could you take a rear ended donor dodge caliber and make a front wheel drive wayfarer.....hmmmm. Ps its been brought to my attention that reading such "ideas" makes half of us smile and the other half vomit. Please remember if you are smiling, be respectful of those purging, and if you are heaving as you read this, we aren't laughing at you...we're just smiling. Enjoy WS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daliant. Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 My vote goes to the LA 360 or even the magnum 5.9, there's plenty of 'em around reasonably priced and they meet your HP goal pretty much in bone stock form. It's not that hard swapping in a small block chrysler into one of these cars plus it's been done plenty of times before. Those modern little 4 bangers and V6's can be made to put out some impressive HP numbers but adapting the EFI stuff away from the parent vehicle opens up a can of worms in itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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