Electrolysis Rust Removal

[Ulu]

Both of my bumpers are straight, but have peeling chrome with nasty rust like this:

 

I can strip this, but what do I do with the chrome gunk once it's stripped off?

 

I've stripped a couple tiny chrome objects, but I don't want to make a bunch of toxic metal waste.

 

I will be sending these out I think.

[DJ194950]

What will do to the bumper once you strip the chrome off?

 

Chrome shops strip off all the chrome and nickel plating and rust before starting a restoration of part to be re chromed in a rust and plating removal

tank. The chrome is recycled as it's expensive also disposal of chromium filled fluids are even more so.

 

Check with one about just a cost of the removal if that's OK with you, might be very reasonable for just that step?

 

Just a thought.

 

DJ

[Ulu]

I spent some time this weekend moving things around and re-wiring my tanks and just generally cleaning things up.

 

I'm dipping some 40+ year old wheels for a trailer I plan to build this winter. They were OK , but a bit rusty with a few real rust pits. 

 

The electrolytic process has its advantages. Electrolysis really cleans out the pits., but it's not a panacea. A lot of cleaning is still required to get these results.

 

 

This wheel was rusty and was poorly repainted at some time since 1971. This is after a week in the tank, a dose of Zip-Strip, a couple more days in the tank, degreaser, and a good burnishing with wire wheels, cups, sandpaper, scotchbrite & elbow grease.

 

 

Wet Rustoleum primer shot this AM:

 

 

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

we always used the heated lye tank for stripping wheels..I have such a tank here in stainless steel but have not started any wheel or head stripping yet...

[Ulu]

The sodium carbonate I'm using isn't nearly as fast as lye, but not so dangerous either. It does a job on rust & strips most re-paint stuff, but doesn't take off the factory paint too well. I'm using a low concentration, however.

 

Frankly, if my neighbors could deal with me running a big compressor, I'd sand blast stuff instead.

It's just not practical here in my corner of suburbia.

 

This makes me wonder: We always used compressed air to paint, but now they have all these airless and HVLP systems for paint.

 

Is there an airless sandblaster out there somewhere?

 

Oh geeze...Google returns 170,000 hits on airless sandblasting!

Edited November 17, 2014 by Ulu

[Plymouthy Adams]

Ulu, on 17 Nov 2014 - 6:03 PM, said:

 

 

This makes me wonder: We always used compressed air to paint, but now they have all these airless and HVLP systems for paint.

 

Is there an airless sandblaster out there somewhere?

 

 

yes...sandpaper is the common name for it..as for HVLP...still air...HV stands for high volume and LP is low pressure...but do not think that low pressure does not mean that you do not have to have the mass quantity of air on tap at the input to the gun...

[Ulu]

 . . . sandpaper . . .

 

   

[Lloyd]

The sodium carbonate I'm using isn't nearly as fast as lye, but not so dangerous either. It does a job on rust & strips most re-paint stuff, but doesn't take off the factory paint too well. I'm using a low concentration, however.

 

Frankly, if my neighbors could deal with me running a big compressor, I'd sand blast stuff instead.

It's just not practical here in my corner of suburbia.

 

This makes me wonder: We always used compressed air to paint, but now they have all these airless and HVLP systems for paint.

 

Is there an airless sandblaster out there somewhere?

 

Oh geeze...Google returns 170,000 hits on airless sandblasting!

 

I sand blasted for a while as well. Industrial type, we used a 10 foot by 6 foot hopper tank set up we pulled around with a tractor, had 4 1-1/2" hoses attached with crows foot attachments and pressure supplied by another towed unit with a Detroit 871.

Blasting an auto frame with that unit shouldn't take more than an hour (in fact at my prime I could have done it in 30 minutes). We also had a 'mini-blaster' plugged an airline into it with a quick connect 1/2 inch line. Drug it around by hand. This thing worked for very small parts but had to constantly add bags of sand and was more of a pain then anything else. Blasting an auto frame with that unit would take about 4-8 hours because the abrasive volume and pressure just would not be there to remove rust and crud from steel. One pass with the big unit would make about 10 passes with the smaller unit. I would not consider purchasing a mini-blaster because the results compared to the amount of abrasive used does not add up to me.

I live in suburbia as well. I use a hand held grinder with a wire wheel to clean most of my parts, and a bit of chem-prime (liquid rust converter) afterwards. Have often missed the ease and speed of a sand blaster but no way could I even get a mini-blaster because of the neighbors, dust and flying sand. Only real option for me would be a cabinet style blaster for small parts - big bucks. Any big parts such as a frame I would either have to tackle with my grinder and wire wheel or research hiring it out to someone with a proper blasting set-up. At this time I would definitely research it first.

 

But for small parts, rather than buffing with a wire wheel -  this has proven to be an interesting topic.

[Plymouthy Adams]

Lloyd...that statement above is the very testimonial that folks need to hear on commercial blasters...high pressure along with max sand volume and fast turn around times are money making constraints for the commercial blaster.  High pressure and max sand flow allow them the less time but to what end of damage to the lighter metal of the auto frame/body.  The sandblasting method is still a very appropriate means to clean and prep but not to a commercial entity unless that entity understands the evils if going to fast..thus they do not like to take the time as they can make double triple the money in same time expended..why...people will not pay for the low and slow process required...for the individual who has a place to do this type work..it is most effective all around and not at all expensive to do..to feed a hopper with fresh sand every five seconds will eat your budget...but at a lower pressure and sand flow, back drops and ground cloth for recovery..the sand can be recycled many time...my entire outer body I did for less than 20.00 of sand...in two afternoons after work including setup and put away of material and tools.  The sand I recycled and even at the end of the job..only 50% of my initial material was lost or non recoverable..if it floats away as a fine dust..you don't want it on the tarp anyway..it has no grit..and no value at that point..plenty of prep has to go into the job before opening the sand valve...failure to do that can and will lead to other problems that you can keep in check with a bi to f prep and common sense..

[james curl]

One problem on using the wire wheel on a 4 1/2" angle grinders is the RPMs that they operate at.  It tends to dislodge the wires in the wheel which act just like little bullets.  If after using this set up you discover a rash on your arm or on your body somewhere check it real close for little wires.  I used an electric drill with wire wheels when I stripped my 55 Chevy pick up  and I got the wire rash in several places and that was at less then 3000 RPMs.

[Lloyd]

One problem on using the wire wheel on a 4 1/2" angle grinders is the RPMs that they operate at.  It tends to dislodge the wires in the wheel which act just like little bullets.  If after using this set up you discover a rash on your arm or on your body somewhere check it real close for little wires.  I used an electric drill with wire wheels when I stripped my 55 Chevy pick up  and I got the wire rash in several places and that was at less then 3000 RPMs.

 

Yep, mostly find them when you sit down.

[Ulu]

Yes, it's dangerous, and cheap quality wheels/cups can make it much more so.

 

I wear a face shield and a leather jacket, and it's peppered with wires when I'm done. 

 

The knotted style wire cup is much sturdier, but it's too stiff for certain use.

 

I like to use the little air grinder and throttle the RPMs down so I don't trash the wires.

[Ulu]

I'm bumping this up so another member can find it easily.

 

Also to report that as I've been tied up with fixing up the mancave, fixing my truck, and other chores, my de-rust operation has been allowed to die slowly.

 

About 4" has evaporated from the tanks, and the anodes are all so crusty there is no real action now at all. Also the parts hanging inn the tank were rust-free long ago.

 

Anyhow, though I've ignored it all for several weeks, nothing bad has happened either. Nothing was damaged, leaked, shorted out or caught fire.

 

For all it's Frankenstein's Lab appearance, this really is a relatively safe business compared to blasting, chemicals or etching; athough a regular caustic hot tank isn't particularly hazardous unless it's gas-fired & you let things get crusty. 

[Joe Flanagan]

Yep, I'll be setting up the old cauldron when I get around to de-rusting the gravel shields for my Plymouth. I thought it worked well and it beats sandblasting as far as mess and trouble are concerned.

[pflaming]

Those of us in the Hydrogen Generator industry know that the gases coming off the top of your containers ARE  very explosive!

The mixture of baking soda and water lit up with electrical current pulls two components out of the water. They are oxygen and hydrogen. The hydrogen can collect in a closed space such as above your rafters in your garage,in an attic etc. Be very careful with any open flames, and or sparks in the area.

 

If your doing it outside or in a very well ventillated area then not to worry. If you doubt me and are the very brave type, take a micro torch or something simular and light the bubbles as they rise up to the top and pop.  They will make a loud bang as they are lit with the flame.  If the collected gas should be trapped as mentioned above you could have a very large explosion and damage as well as major injuries.

 

There have been some who have blown their garage roofs off after an explosion.

 

 Interesting information, and I thought that I was getting free heat (two for one) prior to the fire. Well so much for that idea. 

[Ulu]

I'm working out doors, so no gas is collecting in the garage.

 

HOWEVER, I find that if you use sacrificial anodes which have certain shapes, they can collect large bubbles of hydrogen under the water, which can release all at once..

 

You can light off the ordinary small bubbles and they will pop merrily.

 

But when I moved the anode I'm using now (part of an old PC case) a large bubble of hydrogen was released all at once.

 

You would NOT have wanted to torch that one off. 

 

BTW, I have just started up my tank again. It was off while I was busy with concrete work and other stuff. In this weather I'm losing a gallon a day to evaporation.

[fstfish66]

seems like a lot  of  hoopla,,,, think  im  going to try  evapo rust when  i get to my  bumper,,,unless some  one  has  a not so rusty 40 chrysler/desoto  front  bumper,,,,????

[Ulu]

It has advantages and disadvantages like everything else.

 

I would use it for some things and not for others, based mostly on shape.

 

This removes rust. It doesn't convert it to something else. Any rust it doesn't get is still dangerous & must be removed by other means.

 

When you remove the parts from the tank clean, they are so clean in most places, they'll start to rust again immediately, as they dry.

 

Dry them with a displacer like WD-40 and grease or oil the parts until you're ready to actually paint them.

 

Strip with solvent, prep with Jasco or Ospho or similar conversion preps, then prime & paint.

[Sharps40]

I just drop rusty parts in venigar and come back in a few weeks when I've got ton bored enough to start the cleanup. Slower but nothin to "manage" during the wait time

[TodFitch]

After a bad experience where I forgot some parts in a bucket of chemical rust remover I gave up on that as too error prone for me. For years all I'd use was wire brushes and lots of time.

 

I tried electrolytic rust removal when I had a rusted out 1933 air intake silencer and air cleaner to salvage. There was no way I could get into the inner nooks and crannies with wire brushes and I felt sand blasting would do more damage than good (thin metal, wire gauze to hold sand and later drop it into the engine, etc.). I was astounded by how clean and rust free the part came out of the electrolytic cleaning bucket.

 

I use compressed air to blow the parts dry, lightly sand the areas that need it and then shoot some primer and paint on the parts. Ulu is right, if you are not careful they will re-rust quite quickly but that is true of any operation that cleans to bare metal. Just get them dry quickly and cover them with a rust preventative. For a mechanical part that would be oil, for others it is typically paint.

[Plymouthy Adams]

for flash rust while process the part...a light wipe with a damped cloth (not wet) with Phosphoric is like a magic eraser...phosphoric does not react with clean steel..only reacts with rust...

 

(keep off non ferrous metals) read all directions...

Edited August 29, 2015 by Plymouthy Adams

[Ulu]

I've seen people "lose" parts in hot tanks and chemical tanks too. They just dissolve in time.

 

But some mistakes dissolve overnight!

 

One of the guys put his boat porthole frame in the hot tank overnight. The thing was an alloy of some metal, and it almost disappeared in 16 hours of hot caustic etching.

 

Anyhow, the electrolytic method does not seem to remove any steel, just rust. I've had some parts in a tank for months now as a test. the rust was gone in 3 days, but no visible changes since then.

 

I'm still not sure the best way to remove the carbon "smut" left behind. I often wipe it off with an oily rag. I'm normally never ready to paint anything when I first take it out of the tank, so I grease it and wrap in paper or plastic. Synthetic grease seems to last the best of what I've tried.

 

anyhow, I have a few parts stacking up that need painting, and still have grease and smut on them.