2 barrel carb on a Pilothouse?

[Jeff Balazs]

My feelings about this is to try and keep my truck as simple.and straightforward as possible. If after road testing I feel OK with what I have built so far then I will leave it alone. If it feels like it needs a small increase of power then I will probably go to a single new tunable 2bbl and some Langdon cast iron headers. I think that is as far as I would be willing to go to retain the flathead. That or another gearing swap should be enough. I don't really want to mess with speed parts and all the machine work that goes along with all that. .

 

Shane if I may make a suggestion.....I think rebuilding your distributor and perhaps adding the Ignitor and coil might just give you some ponies back. With the ratios you have available and the larger engine you really ought to be able to cruise comfortably at 70. It may just be that a worn distributor is holding you back?

 

Jeff

[NiftyFifty]

Ya, I do think it's an issue I need to resolve soon, but I just spent another $200 on a rack this week to replace the one I put in. I'm having clearance issues with this URMECO rack, so I need to go back to the Saginaw design where the pressure line is on the side of the tube, rather then top.

[Jeff Balazs]

Ya that is what happens when you break new ground. You are bound to have some teething problems.

Fwiw I have read somewhere that the ignitor kit is not overly sensitive to a bit of slop in the distributor. At least not like points would be. To get the full effect you will need a matched coil. Good luck.

 

Jeff

[Young Ed]

Why not convert to a slant 6 electronic ignition setup?

[NiftyFifty]

I read some stuff on that, but it seemed like more messing around then just putting in the Pertronix plate and a new coil and done. I got a quote on an aluminum finned cyl head.....$950 US, plus shipping......not cheap

[55 Fargo]

I read some stuff on that, but it seemed like more messing around then just putting in the Pertronix plate and a new coil and done. I got a quote on an aluminum finned cyl head.....$950 US, plus shipping......not cheap

Those Edgy heads are pricey, and other than the kool factor, you don't need it.

Certain heads, with specific CC chamber size, and  and shaving will help you out.

I do understand though the logic of having a more powerful V8 get in and go, easier to get parts in a pinch , keep up better with the big dogs etc.

[NiftyFifty]

Any members on here have the Moose Manifolds on their truck? Their a decent price and I'm thinking I might order the set this fall. Not as pretty as moulded manifolds, but I'm after function, not looks...and I can build custom covers anyway .

http://www.manifoldsbymoose.com

[55 Fargo]

Any members on here have the Moose Manifolds on their truck? Their a decent price and I'm thinking I might order the set this fall. Not as pretty as moulded manifolds, but I'm after function, not looks...and I can build custom covers anyway .

http://www.manifoldsbymoose.com

You can also check with Tim Kingsbury and George Asche, AoK racing products.

They do have a cast intake, and can make you a dual intake from your intake manifold, he can split the exhaust too.

Manifolds by Moose would /should be good too.....

[55 Fargo]

1 other thing 4mula, been doing some reading, seems a lot of those who own 46-48 Chryslers/Desotos, with the 251 or 237, are cruising very well, with all stock performance. 65-70 mph, and doing 60 mph very comfortably, even short bursts to 75 mph.

These cars are fairly heavy, but not wickedly so, watched jay leno drive his 41 Plymouth down the freeway @65 mph, with a 201 ci, 85 hp flattie.

Now I know you need more power, for the truck, but what is going on, I would like to think your rebuilt flattie with a T5 trans should drive 110 kph all day long at about 2200 rpm.

Is your present set up, right out of this engines power band, does it accelerate well to speed in all 5 gears, how is it when you down shift to 4th on the highway, do you then have a lot of zoom.

How much does your truck weigh? I would think more than mine, mine is a very light vehicle, that is for sure....Just asking these ?s in curiosity..

Edited July 19, 2015 by Fargos-Go-Far

[NiftyFifty]

Don't know the weight, I keep meaning to hit the scale but it's always busy when I remember it. The truck is definitely heavy, solid frame and a 9' truck box are a lot of weight, top that with a pump stealing 10 possibly more hp and you've created an issue for highway speeds. I'm fine 1-4, but 5th gear is really tough to hold speed in, and 4th is revving higher then I like to leave the old girl at 110. The trucks are much heavier then the cars, and again...less peracetic draw then my set up. I do need to rebuild a distb, or go to one with electronic ignition, but for $400 to try one of these manifold set ups seems worth it.....the other guys are more then $400 for each piece, and I'm not willing to dump another $1000+ into this engine....I have a 383/727 sitting in my shed, or I could use the 318/727 in my Monaco and build the 383 for my car.

[Jeff Balazs]

I just had my 3/4 ton weighed this week .... 4040# state certified. That weight is for a fully loaded fluid drive truck with a spare, HD jack and full toolkit, cross bed wood box and around 60# of spares.

Based on that I would think the lowest sort of number you would see for a 1/2 ton would be around 3600# to 3700# and probably something like 4100# to 4250# on a complete 1 ton.

 

No doubt you are feeling the drain of that PS pump. Maybe that will be minimized when you get your distributor fixed? I would sure go after that before I spent much on other upgrades. Just out of curiosity what ratio rear end do you have in your truck? Maybe there is something that could be done there to help optimize?

 

I will be road testing mine over the next few months. You can bet I will be taking a hard look at all this. This is my only vehicle and needs to be at least adequate for everything I throw at it. Based on what I have seen with it so far I think it will be just that....adequate. It may need a bit of tweaking but certainly no full hot rod treatment. As long as it is safe, reliable and relatively comfortable I will be a very happy camper.

 

Jeff

Edited July 19, 2015 by Jeff Balazs

[55 Fargo]

Don't know the weight, I keep meaning to hit the scale but it's always busy when I remember it. The truck is definitely heavy, solid frame and a 9' truck box are a lot of weight, top that with a pump stealing 10 possibly more hp and you've created an issue for highway speeds. I'm fine 1-4, but 5th gear is really tough to hold speed in, and 4th is revving higher then I like to leave the old girl at 110. The trucks are much heavier then the cars, and again...less peracetic draw then my set up. I do need to rebuild a distb, or go to one with electronic ignition, but for $400 to try one of these manifold set ups seems worth it.....the other guys are more then $400 for each piece, and I'm not willing to dump another $1000+ into this engine....I have a 383/727 sitting in my shed, or I could use the 318/727 in my Monaco and build the 383 for my car.

Hmmm, yes perhaps your truck is heavier than my 3000 lb swb 1/2 ton, the big Chrysler and Desotos are in the 3600 lb range.

What gear ratio is in your diff? I would think anything below 3.55 would or could create problems in 5th OD, would be be better with 3.73 s.....at any rate good luck, look forward to your results with an intake and exhaust change BTW which engine do you have 218,228 or 251?

[NiftyFifty]

251 and 3:55 I believe is what's there....no tag on the diff and the other stamped numbers mean nothing for ratio. It is limited slip however....I had forgotten that until I changed my pinion seal this winter...that was the only tag left on it. Some day on the hoist I'll spin it and see if I can get a rough guess if I'm right. I've got the week to see if my other distributor might be better...my rack came in wrong again, so I'll be waiting to find the correct Saginaw this week. I'm also looking at some paint on my centre hood panel......really needs to be orange I think

[Merle Coggins]

If you truly have 3.55 gears you should be able to cruise nicely in direct drive (4th), at 110 KPH (68 MPH).  5th probably drops the RPM enough to be out of a good power range. At that speed my truck engine spins around 3100 RPM with 3.73 gears. Yours would be around 2900 with 3.55's in 4th. Probably down to 2500, or so, in 5th.

 

Merle

[55 Fargo]

If you truly have 3.55 gears you should be able to cruise nicely in direct drive (4th), at 110 KPH (68 MPH).  5th probably drops the RPM enough to be out of a good power range. At that speed my truck engine spins around 3100 RPM with 3.73 gears. Yours would be around 2900 with 3.55's in 4th. Probably down to 2500, or so, in 5th.

 

Merle

I agree Merle, should be able to cruise nicely, and even in 5thOD, without strong headwinds or steep hills.

My truck has 3.23 gears, now if I shift into 4th direct drive at too low an RPM, and if there is a good headwind, it gets doggy, but once powerband catches up, no problem.

I do not think the 3.23 gears are necessarily the best range for these engines, especially tired engines. I would never need an overdrive trans, good rebuilt engine, with a little trick work would no doubt make a difference.

I do have the 318, but no immediate plans to swap....

[NiftyFifty]

And I used to be able too with my flatdeck and no PS, but the extra added weight and engine draw have created enough loss that the truck is a bit short on power in 5th, and in 4th I'm likely 32-3500 which is loud and annoying and creates more unwanted heat on the hot days and even more power loss. I'll try the different dist and hopefully a dual carb set up for next year....this years budget is so far past blown it's not funny

[55 Fargo]

And I used to be able too with my flatdeck and no PS, but the extra added weight and engine draw have created enough loss that the truck is a bit short on power in 5th, and in 4th I'm likely 32-3500 which is loud and annoying and creates more unwanted heat on the hot days and even more power loss. I'll try the different dist and hopefully a dual carb set up for next year....this years budget is so far past blown it's not funny

Hmmm , you know I have never even had my truck over 2600 rpm or so, no where near 3200-3500, that must be a screamin demon..

[Jeff Balazs]

Based on what I know so far I think OD with a 3.55 rear axle would be pushing it for my 230. The other day I got stuck behind a gravel truck on a short grade.......forget about accelerating in 4th gear. Dropped down to 3rd to get enough grunt. I think we have to be very cautious when we play around with gearing and these old flatties. They definitely need to be able to rev some.

 

I wonder if anyone has tried a T5 with a 3.73 rear? It seems to me that a combo like this might offer the most flexibility.

 

Jeff

[NiftyFifty]

I actually used to be able to accelerate in 5th, and fairly well....only had to drop to 4th on a big hill, but again, less weight. I think the 3:73 would be a good option, they do need a bit more rpm to hold speed, but with highway speeds increasing here, I'm in a losing battle with keeping up to traffic.

[Young Ed]

I don't have my T5 going yet. However I have a R10 OD and 3.73 in my 48 Plymouth and it works out well. I do occasionally have to drop back to direct but not for every hill.

I will say my T5 project truck so far is getting a 3.55 gear.

Another factor-what size wheels/tires are you running? 

[Dodgeb4ya]

I had a 1953 savoy wagon I put a 3.73 in it with a OD... it also had a low mileage 1955 230 in it.

 

It struggled to go up moderate hills in 3rd OD.

 

Went  to a 4.11.

 

All was great.

[greg g]

The 2bbl option was good for 131 HP.

[Jeff Balazs]

I believe my tire and wheel combination works out to about 29" or 29.5" OD.

My truck has a '54 230 truck engine which was rebuilt at some time in the past and runs pretty well. It is a 4 speed fluid drive and has a 3.55 rear axle from a Grand Cherokee. It seems to keep up with traffic flow just fine on relatively flat roads. I don't bother much with 1st gear as it still feels like a granny gear even after the rear axle swap.

 

One thing I wonder about though is the timing......and how accurate the mark is that I am using. If I set it for a high vacuum reading it seems to run stronger than when I set it with the timing light to stay within the prescribed limits. With other engines I have owned I always felt like they ran best with the vacuum reading optimized. And I never had any issues running a bit outside the recommended timing. I just don't know if that is a good idea with one of these engines?

 

Jeff

[greg g]

Only worry is spark knock under load. No knock, good to go.

[NiftyFifty]

The manual actually said to set the timing so advanced that it knocked lightly under a heavy load in high gear...can't recall which manual...might be my motors manual or another I read.....problem is with newer ethanol gas it doesn't knock as easily, so you can be too far before you know it....but I was having much better power at a high advance, and I have doubts my balancer is correct, it wasn't the original for the engine