Starter "sticks"

[Bobacuda]

My truck's starter sticks in the engage position after the truck has started and my foot is off the starter pedal.

 

I have a '53 B4B that had the starter rebuilt.  It is the original "stomp" starter.  The man that rebuilt it passed away and I got it back from his son, who was not any kind of a mechanic -  so I can't go back to them for help.  The starter is currently out of the truck and I cannot find any broken return springs, nor have not seen any return springs in the shop manual (not for the '53 Dodge B4B).  I am perplexed as to why the starter drive won't disengage.

 

It looks to me like there are only three parts involved - the starter lever, starter switch, and starter drive.  I cannot find anything wrong with the lever.  Before I just start throwing parts at the problem, has anyone else experienced this?  Any ideas what could be causing the starter drive not to release?

Edited March 28, 2014 by Bobacuda

[NiftyFifty]

Are you 6 volt or 12? I've seen on a low battery where the solenoid can stick itself and keep running but you should notice a weak battery. With the starter out do you find the foot pedal stick at all? Or look at the starter and function the e gauge by hand, maybe its got a rough spit that's hanging up.

Good luck

[desoto1939]

dOES THE starter pedal that goes throught the firewall pop back out when you release your foot after starting the truck.  There is a spring in this foot pedal.  Also check the  bolt or screw that  holds the  linkage on the starter body to see if it is tooo tight and is binding.

 

Turn the ignition off and then push the lever on the starter motor to engage the starter drive into the ring gear and then notice if the lever retracts or not.  You are going to have to look around to see if something is binding or there is something rubbing.  Might need two people for this one in the truck and you looking in the engine to see what is happening.

 

On the starter drive on my 39 Desoto there is a internal spring on this part that has the teeth that mate upto the ring gear.  May this spring is broken or is not strong enough to release the drive from the ring gear.

 

When you take out the starter motor are you seeing any metal shavings that might also mean that the drive is not aligned properly and is sticking to the ring gear.

 

I am not a mechanci but just some high level diagnosising.

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

Edited March 28, 2014 by desoto1939

[Plymouthy Adams]

I was going to post similar Rich but as the man haa already removed the starter and has no tests made prior to that removal of the mechanical section of the starter operation with battery removed, there is no real test you can do now to rule anything out... one can only make a guess to the section/function that is causing the bind now...would well be if reinstalled it may not duplicate the previous fault

[Bobacuda]

The starter hung up on 6 and 8 volts.  The starter lever is not binding, ring gear looks great, no metal shavings.  I removed and reinstalled it several times trying to get it to work right before I took my truck completely apart for a rebuild.  Now that I am reassembling the drive train, brakes and all things non-sheet metal, I am trying to fix the various things I ignored so many years - like the starter's hang-ups.

 

The foot pedal through the firewall works fine, no binding.  When the truck was started, I would have to open the hood and grab the lever and "unhang" the starter.  If the truck did not start, it would still hang up.  Would this be a sign of a bad starter button?  I was planning on replacing it.

 

What are the symptoms of a bad starter drive?  My Dodge Truck Shop Manual and my 1955 Motors Manual don't say and I have no idea if this could be the problem.

 

Thanks for taking the time to mull this over.

[Plymouthy Adams]

sounds more like a bad starter drive to ring gear intermesh....as in too tight for some odd reason and binding...ensure the correct tooth count bendix....

[DJ194950]

Dang,  tim you're reading my thoughts!

 

Was  just going to type in that thought- with the suggestion that the starter be engaged by second person or held in start position by wiring down- Battery disconnected of course.

Turned over from below by hand with prybar and flywheel to starter gear mesh observed. Should never get tight.

Also a wire attached to a lower bolt with the wire bent close to an edge of the flywheel observed to check flywheel run out frt. to back and out of roundof flywheel rotation.

[NiftyFifty]

If its still turning even on a no start then it shouldn't be the ring gear or starter gear, its a stuck solenoid. I'd pull the hole thing apart again and look for any arc marks and where that button is on the outside to make sure that shaft isn't bured. Maybe the spring is wrong and not enough pressure to pull back?

[desoto1939]

After reading what the original post update my next thought was alos the selinoid. This might be bad and this is still supplying current to the starter motor.  The question is do you have  the type of starter switch that bolts to the top of the starter motor or is it more like the modern seliod?  Also what about the bendix or starter drive  it self that has the teeth. There is a spring in that section.

 

Also what is the starter motor number that you are using it could be totally incorrect.

 

My catalogs and Hollander does not cover upto your year so I can not provider the appropriate stater motor number but maybe someone can provide you with this starter model and who made it.

 

Rich Hartung

[JBNeal]

I reckon your starter clutch needs replacing...had one snap on my '49, luckily I was pointed downhill so I was able to get back to the house.  The external lever arm connects to the starter clutch to engage the pinion shaft to the flywheel ring gear.  It has a compression spring that forces the pinion shaft off of the flywheel ring gear when the lever arm is released.  A quick check if you have the starter on the bench is to manually actuate the lever arm fully; if it snaps back, the clutch & lever spring are ok...if it returns without that snap, then one of those two springs is busted, or the clutch is sticking on a gummed up shaft.

Edited March 29, 2014 by JBNeal

[TodFitch]

Reading this thread, I can't tell if the starter pinion gear is meshed via a linkage from the starter pedal, if it is meshed by a solenoid, or if it is a Bendix style. Some of the answers indicate the latter two options but I read the OP as the first.

 

On my '33 the starter pedal engages the pinion gear then presses on the starter switch mounted on the top of the starter. I did have this hang up on me for a while and the issue was a build up of dirt on a pivot point that was too much for the return spring on the pedal mechanism to overcome. A simple cleaning and re-lubrication was enough to fix it.

[Bobacuda]

The starter is the one that came on the truck in 1953, to the best of my knowledge.  It does not have a solenoid.  To activate the starter, you step on the starter pedal, the pedal moves the starter lever to push the starter switch (or button -  the shop manual uses both words).  At the same time the internal part of the starter lever riding on the sleeve moves forward against the spring, and that moves the starter clutch assembly forward.  This is all described using the parts diagram in the Shop Manual to try to cut out some of the confusion.

 

The shop manual shows a different looking starter lever than my '53.  The starter lever on the one in the Shop Manual is long and straight, with a built in return spring.  My '53 lever is shorter, has a factory bend or two in it and does not have a built in return spring.

 

Based on JB's description, I am planning on replacing the starter clutch.

 

Thanks again for all the ideas and input.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Bobacuda