Trans Countershaft Leak

[squirebill]

'49 Dodge B1B, 3 speed trans. Trans was seized. Disassembled, freed it up, had to replace lower gear cluster. Reassembled and installed. Ran for a few hours and have a leak at one or both of the countershafts at the rear of the transmission. Thought I saw reference to a repair of this leak using welsh plugs. Have searched but can't seem to locate the thread. Can anybody point me to it or some other repair for the leak. Read a thread today that said it is just one of those things that happens with old trucks. Kindof gave the impression that once the crud is cleaned from the transmission, it will leak until the crud builds up again. I'm OK with that, but if there is a clever repair done by others I'd be interested. Thanks and best regards.

[P15-D24]

Parts book doesn't show a welch plug. Look like there is a flat plate with a bolt to hold the shaft. Is the bolt tight? Maybe add some sealer on the bolt threads? 

[Don Coatney]

Is the transmission overfilled with oil?

[squirebill]

Transmission is filled to bottom edge of fill plug hole.

[JBNeal]

that 3 spd is funny like that:  there's an output shaft seal, but no seal on the countershaft that's held in place with a metal bar.  I dunno if there is a fix for this as there's no provision for a seal in the transmission case, there's not a lot of gasket surface to make a difference, and putting silicone on the outside of the case is only a temporary solution.  Checking the fluid level regularly and putting some cardboard or kitty litter down under the truck when parked are about the only ways I've been able to deal with this bit of old Dodge character 

[squirebill]

Earlier today decided to do the silicon rtv seal around the shaft ends and the lock bar and bolt head.  May be temporary but I will feel better having tried to at least slow down the leak.  As I was trying to clean the oil off the surface so the silicon rtv would have a better chance of sticking, it looked like some of the surface was covered with black paint.  Was wondering if maybe that's what they did originally....paint the transmission and seal the leakage points with the paint.  Wasn't there a paint called something like "glyptol" that was used to paint machinery.  I think it was even used internally on engines to ease oil flow and help prevent the stiction of sludge to internal surfaces.  Ring a bell with anyone.  Probably no longer available cause of all the bad stuff in it that made it work so well.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Those countershafts are a fairly tight fit when originally pressed into the case. So they never had seals or sealant most likely from the factory. Now days after a rebuild or two or just a lot of wear and tear the shafts are not so tight in the case and possible even loose and seep oil. The fix could be as simple as cleaning the ends of the shafts extremely well and sealing with a oil resistant flexable sealant. Otherwise take the trans apart to carefully examine the case bores and shafts and press fit tolerances.

Best answer ---it's an old dodge, it should leak a little!

[Desotodav]

You may find some useful info here squirebill... http://p15-d24.com/topic/23815-transmission-gasket/?hl=%2Bgearbox+%2Bmain+%2Bshaft+%2Bleak#entry233979 as we have discussed this topic before. I am still fighting a slight oil weep in the same area/s (front and back) of my gearbox. I am now considering using sealer on the item marked 'screw 21-24-15' that goes through the 'plate' (with the same part reference #) into the gearbox case. I'll drop the gearbox out again soon. I am still determined to have no drip tray on my garage floor! I think that I'm down to about 2 oil drips per night on the garage floor now - I am winning the battle !!!

 

[Barry Maxwell]

  Wasn't there a paint called something like "glyptol" that was used to paint machinery.  I think it was even used internally on engines to ease oil flow and help prevent the stiction of sludge to internal surfaces.  Ring a bell with anyone.  Probably no longer available cause of all the bad stuff in it that made it work so well.

 

Yes, it is Glyptol 1201 Red Enamel Insulating Paint. I used it to paint the inside of several oil pans on previous projects. Good stuff. I don't recall where I bought it. Perhaps it can be Googled.

Barry

[ggdad1951]

  Wasn't there a paint called something like "glyptol" that was used to paint machinery.  I think it was even used internally on engines to ease oil flow and help prevent the stiction of sludge to internal surfaces.  Ring a bell with anyone.  Probably no longer available cause of all the bad stuff in it that made it work so well.

 

Yes, it is Glyptol 1201 Red Enamel Insulating Paint. I used it to paint the inside of several oil pans on previous projects. Good stuff. I don't recall where I bought it. Perhaps it can be Googled.

Barry

several vendors carry it:

 

http://search.eastwood.com/search?w=glyptal&ts=custom&srccode=ga130060&device=c&matchtype=p&network=g&creative=22994428860&gclid=CMGV45KeyLgCFfFDMgodBUQAkQ

 

http://www.amazon.com/Glyptal-1201-Enamel-Insulating-Paint/dp/B0034D1ZCM

 

http://www.sears.com/glyptal-1201-red-enamel-insulating-paint-quart/p-SPM6320712004P

[HanksB3B]

The attached Gasket might help.  Also, the rear seal p/n 21-22-2 are getting very hard to find these days: 

 

 

Hank 

Transmission Gasket-03.pdf

[squirebill]

Thanks guys for all the input.  Hank,  I installed a new main output shaft seal when I refurbed the transmission.  This leak was lower than the main output shaft at the rear ends of the countershaft and the reverse gear shaft.  As I said above have gooped both ends (front and rear) of the countershaft and the rear end of the reverse gear shaft with silicon RTV.  Will see how it holds up.  Hadn't thought of the glyptal paint in probably 40 years.  Used it back then to paint pipes when changed my house heating system from steam heat to gas fired hot water heat.  The central steam plant went bankrupt and everyone in the community had to put in a heating system of some sort.  Probably the wrong application for the paint but it was on hand so it was used.  Happy to know it is still available.  Thanks for the links.

[Desotodav]

I was chatting to a few knowledgeable fellas at a car show today about my minor oil leak at the end of the transmission counter-shaft and they asked whether I had a blocked breather or vent in the transmission casing. I have heard this suggested before on an Oz truck forum that I monitor, but it related to an International truck. I did a forum search here (and also checked on some manuals that I have) but I could not locate any information in relation to a breather or vent fitted to our truck gearboxes.

 

Is it possible that our gearboxes may build up pressure causing oil to weep between the counter-shaft and the transmission casing?

If so, would the installation of some sort of vent or breather rectify this issue? 

[Jeff Balazs]

Hi Davin;

I can't see how a small high point vent would hurt anything. Many rear axles have a vent for the very same purpose.

And quite a lot of the older motorcycles with separate transmissions actually benefit from the addition of a high point vent for exactly the same reason. Some of the old Burman and others gearboxes used well into the 50's had very crude leather and metal seals. They probably don't seal all that well when they are new and as they wear they become real leakers. The addition of a high point vent was a common fix back in the day.....and something that was actually adopted in later models by the manufacturers.

 

It could be more of an issue on trucks with the 3 on the tree transmissions than the top shifters. I expect that my 4 speed probably vents some through the shifter boot.

 

Try adding a vent provision.......a 1/4" hole should be adequate.........you may have stumbled across a fix for a lot of folks.

 

Jeff