B1B Keven Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 Sorry, no manual. I don't remember anything between the forks and bearing. Looking at the shop manual picture that Desotodav posted, that's how I remember it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desotodav Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 The manual that I posted the diagram from was a USA manual. I have recently installed the motor and gearbox back into my 52 truck and used a clutch aligning tool (photo attached) to center the clutch plate. I agree with others in that there is nothing that goes between the forks and the throwout bearing sleeve. The rear view of my clutch looked the same as others pictured earlier in this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirebill Posted July 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 To all: first I would like to thank you all for your interest and patience with me and dealing with my situation. It really is quite amazing to be able to ask a question and get knowledgeable responses from all over the US and even half way around the world from Australia. I have technical questions about computers and this site in particular. How do I post pictures in a reply and how do I edit a reply I have already posted. Because I'm not very computer savvy people around here refer to me as "Urban Amish".(no offense intended). Not sure if that is just a Pennsylvania thing or if it is also used in other parts of the country/world. Thanks again all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_shel_ny Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 (edited) different on trucks. The floor is the stoip OK, strange, but now I understand the error of my free play thinking Edit: so it is actually difficult to determine true "free play" without the floor. Edited July 15, 2013 by shel_bizzy_48 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_shel_ny Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 (edited) How do I post pictures in a reply and how do I edit a reply I have already posted. . I find pics from my computer are the easiest. In the "reply to this topic" section, look to the right. click "more reply options" Scroll down to the "attach files" area, then browse your computer pics and attach your file. You can preview to see if it is to big, too small, or not there before hitting "add reply" If you are starting a new thread, the option for pictures is already there, bottom left. If you are "quoting" a post, the "more reply options" will be there on the right. Also when "quoting", you can remove text so that just the part you want to quote is left. Same goes for pics in a quote. Just like the text that you don't want to repeat, the pics can be removed so that they are not repeated 3, 4, 5 times in the same thread. to "edit" go to the post that you want to edit: Lower right corner is Report Edit MultiQuote Quote hover the cursor over "Edit" then click on it, and edit away. Edit: spelling Edited July 15, 2013 by shel_bizzy_48 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirebill Posted July 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) OK guys, a few more questions: Anyone seen a new clutch disc lately? If so what would be your guess for the depth from the friction surface down to the rivet head? Pulled my trans, clutch and disc today and inspection of the disc showed shiny surfaces on the coils of the springs sandwiched in the disc hub. They are rubbing on the ends of the bolts and nuts that hold the flywheel on. Only time I've seen this before was on a '64 Plymouth Valiant that needed the clutch and disc replaced. Reason for my question is that as far as I can figure my disc has only had .007" wear on each side and I have about .020" depth to get to the rivet heads so I figured it was OK to reinstall. Another issue is that my B1 series manual in the "Engine" section looks like it shows the bolts for the flywheel coming through and threaded into the flywheel with no nuts but lock washers under the heads of the bolt. Note that the heads of the bolts are between the flywheel and the engine. However, in the "Clutch" section it shows studs (no hex head) installed from the clutch side with nuts and lock washers between the flywheel and the engine. Anybody with a parts manual able to tell which way the bolts should be on a B1B? If the clutch disc is within specs looks like the flywheel mounting bolts may be in backwards. Flipping them around looks like it would be a pain....seems like once I got the nuts off there wouldn't be enough room between the flywheel and the engine to slide the bolt back towards the engine and pivot out. Any thoughts. The springs rubbing the bolts probably causing the clutch not to release fully but I still have the problem of the 3" free play at the clutch pedal. Edited July 16, 2013 by squirebill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) Is the disc installed backwards. Has the flywheel bolts and flywheel been swapped? Sounds like it! Pics would be nice.. Edited July 16, 2013 by Dodgeb4ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirebill Posted July 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Clutch disc is installed with the side marked "flywheel side" facing the flywheel. As far as flywheel and bolts being swapped....I don't remember/know. Back in the mid '70s I took a rebuilt engine out of a 1948 Plymouth and put it in this truck. I don't remember all the parts that had to be switched out to get the Plymouth engine to fit in the B1B. I'm thinking probably the oil pan but not sure about flywheel, clutch, and/or bell housing. I'm not even sure the actual '48 engine was rebuilt or if another rebuilt engine from something else was put in the '48 body. Right now the engine number pad is so rusted I can't make out anything on it. I did find a piece of paper within the pages of my old Plymouth manual that stated "Engine No. on '48 Plymouth---LP6(STAR) 48283. Is there somewhere that can figure out what this engine was originally installed in? So from the time of the engine swap to just recently the truck has been sitting. Every 4 or 5 years I would get the engine running but nothing more that that. So here we are, almost 40 years later and I'm trying to get it to the point where I can put some antique tags on it and maybe drive it once in awhile and maybe in a parade or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 You are now most likely at the cause of the problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirebill Posted July 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 OK guys....internet says Plymouth engine number with a "LP6" prefix came out of a 1958 Plymouth Plaza, Savoy, or Belvedere and was a 230 cu.in engine. Can any one here verify this and tell me if the 11" dia. clutch was supplied on any of those vehicles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 A 58 Plymouth six could probably have an 11" clutch in a Taxi cab application. How do you know the flywheel and clutch is from a 1958 Plymouth? You will need to first off fix the interference of the bolts/nuts on the flywheel to disc issue. Make it so the disc won't hit the mounting bolts ect. Then as for the pressure plate-trucks 11" use a four finger PP and cars use a 3 finger PP as best I can remember. Now you also need to know what is the factory dodge truck measurement/distance from the flywheel face to the transmission to bell houising mount surface. You need to know if your flywheel setback from the trans mount surface is to far back causing the bearing to be too far back-and cause of trouble getting the clutch pedal to engage and release with proper feel and travel. Thats a lot to digest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 My information says the '58 Plymouth should have a serial number starting with LP1 if a six or LP2 if an eight. I was under the assumption that the engine number prefixes would match the engineering code as they did in earlier years but I don't have anything to confirm or deny that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave72dt Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 You probably won't have as much free play after you solve the bolt and flywheel problem. The pressure plate fingers respond to the thickness of the disc and its behaving like it has a excessively thick disc in it. The thicker the disc, the farther in the fingers retract=more free play. Thinner disc = less free play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirebill Posted July 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) Early this morning, as recommended above, started to try to figure out the differences there might be between the engine I have in the truck and what I should have in the truck. Googled "Mopar parts interchange" and came across a site of www.pacificautotronics.com . They have an interchange book that can be downloaded for free....could be useful to others on this site. Someone more computer saavy than me might know how to download it to the Technical section of this site. Book verifies that the LP6 engine prefix applies to a LP1 catalog number 6 cyl. car that was the 1958 model year. By then it was 9am and I gave a call to Tennessee clutch as recommended. Talked with Randall and explained my 3" freeplay problem. He thought there was a longer throwout bearing sleeve that would straighten out my situation. Located one in his shop but after seeing it was convinced it would be way too long. So instead he agreed my clutch disc needed to be relined, that with .020" to rivet heads it was time. As stated above the thicker disc will move the springs back from the flywheel mounting bolts but increase the pedal free play. If I packaged up the clutch assy also he would go over it and set the fingers to spec for the truck. All this plus a new throwout bearing, pilot bearing and alignment tool for $75.00. Sounds like a deal to me as I was prepared to buy a new throwout bearing alone for $30-$35. This clutch project will be on hold until I get the clutch parts back. I received my carb overhaul kit yesterday so that will be next. The accelerator pump circuit doesn't seem to be working. Edited July 16, 2013 by squirebill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randygall Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 I had a problem with the adjustment of my clutch. i only had about 1-2 inches of travel from the floor. I found out that the flywheel had been cut .200". A new flywheel is 1.3 inches and mine was 1.1 inches. I had the clutch shop adjust the fingers on the flywheel to make up for the .200 that had been cut. After that now i have full adjustment and all is well. Hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 ^^^Thats what I'm referring too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirebill Posted July 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) With all my measurements have determined that I would have had to raise the fingers about .2 inches also. That would have been about 1 turn of the finger adjusting nuts. When I talked to Randall at Tennessee Clutch this morning he said that sounded about right and was pretty easy to do but since he offered to do it if I sent the assembly to him, it will go in the mail tomorrow. Thanks for the dimension on the flywheel. I'm assuming it is the thickness and will check mine tomorrow. As it was I figured needed to raise the fingers .2 but didn't no why. Almost hope the flywheel is thin so will have a reason. Also may be the reason the disc springs are kissing the flywheel mounting bolts. All starting to make a little sense. Thanks for the input. Edited July 17, 2013 by squirebill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) The B1 and B2 dodge truck 1/2-3/4 ton 11" flywheel is the same as a 11" P-15 flywheel BTW. Bob Edited July 17, 2013 by Dodgeb4ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution squirebill Posted July 17, 2013 Author Solution Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Couldn't wait til tomorrow to check flywheel thickness. Got under the truck with my flashlight and calipers and sure enough it measured 1.103" thick. Guess that solves the problem. Will call Randall at Tennessee Clutch and advise findings and ask if he will make adjustment to raise fingers by 0.200". Let you all know how it works out. Best regards to all. Thanks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave72dt Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 You'll still need to deal with the flywheel bolts. They're also that much closer to the disc than original bolts were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirebill Posted July 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Understood....with having only .020" of wear left on my clutch disc before the rivets hit the flywheel, figured I would wait to get the relined disc back from Tennessee Clutch and see the distance from the face to the rivet heads. This measurement minus .020" would be the distance the springs are moved back from the bolts with the new disc. If it is only .007" as I suspect it might be, will probably attack the flywheel mounting bolts with a 4" angle grinder and grind a minimum of .025" off them. This would give .005" clearance between them and the springs if and when the disc wears to the point where the rivets contact the flywheel. I'll take a good hard look at it. Maybe I'll try to remove one of the nuts and see if there is enough room between the flange of the crankshaft and the back surface of the rear main seal to push the bolt through and get it out. Looks pretty tight. Anybody have any experience with this? Doesn't seem to make sense that you would have to put the flywheel bolts in the crank flange before you load the crank into the engine block or install the rear main bearing cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 How many bolts hold the flywheel on? There are 4 and 6 bolt flywheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirebill Posted July 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Mine has 4 bolts. The nuts holding the bolts are visible from the clutch end. The bolts themselves don't have hex heads but look more like a large pan or cheese head. Doesn't seem to be anyway to hold the bolt from turning as you would try to remove or torque the nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Elder Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Mine has 4 bolts. The nuts holding the bolts are visible from the clutch end. The bolts themselves don't have hex heads but look more like a large pan or cheese head. Doesn't seem to be anyway to hold the bolt from turning as you would try to remove or torque the nuts. I didn't know what the heck a cheese head bolt was until I looked it up You know what I thought it looked like...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirebill Posted July 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 LOL........Us guys is pigs....as hard as we try to keep our minds out of the gutter...... we aren't be able to do it for very long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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