1953 Plymouth Convertible Rebuild Part 1

[Plymouthy Adams]

you going to have enough expense and hassles finding just what you need to go stock...I would not embark on a venture that will take you farther from the finish line and detract from the overall value of the beast..

now that you have your book..now is a good time to familarize yourself with the various drivetrain setups for that year and how each is set up..

[RobertKB]

you going to have enough expense and hassles finding just what you need to go stock...I would not embark on a venture that will take you farther from the finish line and detract from the overall value of the beast.

Ditto. Stick with what you have as it will be much simpler. I believe the '53 Plymouth convertibles sold in Canada were all built in the US so you would not be ahead looking for parts here. I have seen a few short block Plymouths up here but all were built in the US and just ended their days in Canada. Good luck with your project. I am watching closely as I just love seeing a car brought back from the verge of the crusher to something everyone admires.

[pflaming]

"planetary gear. (of a gear, esp an epicyclic gear) having an axis that rotates around that of another gear"

So then in a passenger car, there are only two transmissions; the conventional 3 speed and the overdrive. The Hy-drive adds an oil pressure converting system of rotating 'fans' in front of the convetional 3 speed transmission.

Ratios: Hydrive Overdrive

1st gear 2.37 - 1 2.57 - 1

2nd gear 1.68 - 1 1.83 - 1

3rd gear 1 - 1 1 - 1

Rear axle 3.73 - 1 4.1 - 1 Optional mountain/hilly applications: 3.93 Rare and 3.23 is rare

After an evening of reading, I'm going to keep the hy-drive as it is and put a 51 Chrysler Fluid drive axle Ratio: (C52, C53, C54) 3.73-1 (C53) 3.54-1. The electrical on the overdrive does not attract me, but the 3.54 rear axle does and I know where there is one. Or maybe an ". . . 87 Dakota 8.25 or a 2000 Explorer 8.8, depending on the gear ratio. Both are the right width"

.

Now. . . this is all new information to me, so please correct where I am amiss.

Edited January 3, 2013 by pflaming

[CaptainGTX]

I'm not a 53 Plymouth expert, but am well versed on 53 Dodges. My understanding is Plymouth's Hy-Drive was the same as Dodge's Gyro-Torque setup. In Dodge's case it drove an M6 four-speed semi-automatic transmission, and I believe the Plymouths also had the four-speed rather than a three-speed. Both had torque-converters that were driven off the engine's oil pump. In both cases the engine block integral bellhousing was longer to marry up to the torque converters, so cannot accomodate a non torque-converter driven transmission.

My 53 Dodge is a convertible and is shorter than the same-year sedans, so was built on what was basically a 53 Plymouth chassis. It also has the first-year Red Ram V8 engine, which necessitated changing the steering to facilitate the wider engine. If not for that, you could theoretically drop a Red Ram into your car.

1953-54 Plymouth's and Dodge's are rare cars. I would encourage you to keep yours as stock as possible. That's what I've done to mine. With the Gyro-Torque it's not quite as quick as it would be with a three-speed (that's what my first 53 Coronet had - my first car ever). They both had the 3.54 final drive (same as my 69 440 4spd GTX), which works well with the the little Hemi also.

[Plymouthy Adams]

Cap't, think you need to do a bit more reading between the models and their differences..

[CaptainGTX]

Tim, Instead of just disparaging my comments, why don't you point out where you disagree? Captain

[Plymouthy Adams]

start with the Gyro verse the only three factory available setups for Plymouth same year

(53)..please note there is a great difference between fluid coupling and a torque convertor..the Hy-drive used a torque convertor fed by engine oil with a 2.6 multiplication factor...the Plymouth had three speed trannies and need to be clutched between shifts...the OD was available only on the convertional tranny...( stock 1st and 2nd ratio)...your Dodge is fluid coupled , self contained sealed unit, with no multifplier, the 4 speed is fluid coupled high rangle/low range set up..shifting and clutching needed when using all four gear..(2 low and 2 high) the smaller Dodge was built on the 114 Plymouth wheelbase I will give you that...only way the 53 Plumouth was considered a 4 speed was with the optional OD tranny.

[CaptainGTX]

As I indicated, I'm not an expert on 53 Plymouths. I know there were a variety of transmissions offered for both Plymouths and Dodges in 1953 & 54. I was addressing only the Hy-Drive, and in checking further, agree it employed a three-speed transmission.

The 53 Dodges, however, were available with two different semi-automatic transmissions, a Gyro-Matic and a Gyro-Torque. The Gyro-Matic used the fluid coupler you write about. My car has the top option Gyro-Torque, which is a torque converter mated to the M6 four speed transmission. The torque convertor, also fed by engine oil, does indeed magnify engine torque. The transmission has two ranges, low and high, with two gears in each range. The clutch is needed only when selecting the range; shifting within each range is done without the clutch by use of the accelerator. You can also stop and restart without the clutch. I have ridden in a Gyro-Matic equipped car and can state with authority the torque convertor in my Gyro-Torque makes a significant difference.

[Plymouthy Adams]

Cap't, you are right.. the Gyro-Torque did use a torque convertor......as it was but a single year model and only coupled with the V8..and I admit I was not familar with it first hand like the Gyro-Matic...I have to admit that all I have messed with were flattie powered vehicles which was only fluid coupled..never messed with an early V8....the Dodge fall into the same transisition as the Plymouth waiting for the introduction of the Powerflite tranny..my one source listed both GyroMatic and Gyro-torgue as coupled but upon counsulting my 55 Motors it did describe it as a convertor/shared oil..my error in not reading both articles prior to answering..it is good to learn....the Plymouth still needed clutching and shifting for gear changes..the torque convertor allowed for you to stay in higher gear in town without need to shift..as it had the torque to move out from a stop...

[CaptainGTX]

I think we can agree that we both learned something from this exchange, and that's the whole point of this forum. Hopefully those reading also learned more about these interesting cars.

And that was the whole point of my submission. These 53-54 Mopar cars are at least somewhat unusual and interesting and in many cases overlooked. I don't know why there isn't a dedicated site for them, as with the P15-D24's and the Finned Fifties, for example.

My two cents are that the original poster should at least consider keeping the car as original as practicable. Only 6,301 of the convertibles were built. In the case of my 53 Coronet, only 4,100 were made, and mine is the only such car in the WPC roster (out of probably 10,000 cars). Every year more and more cars of this vintage lose their originality and some can't economically be brought back. That's why mine has thus far remained unrestored.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I do have a 54..it is quite the car and grows on you. I was not out to buy this car..the owner brought it to me..I bought it due to the fact it was an unmolested original 2 door car, first year with the larger 230 engine and automatic transmission....had both appearance packages as stock from the factory..more bling than Mr. T...I have since found the 54 wire caps by Cello and NOS rocker trim to max this pig with shiney stuff...the car is quite peppy really compared to my other flat powered Plymouths..super smooth (shorter wheelbase Ithink attributes to that) and I do not now or ever think I will like a three on the tree...the 2 speed is very long legged compared to the quick shifting of the stock three speeds..had it been anything but a 2 door and automatic..I would have passed on the vehicle..the acquiring price however was quite reasonable..I never was fond of the sinlgel pane front windshield non detachable rear fenders as common on the older cars till I got this one..again..they seem to grow on you the more you are around them..my blue beast and the Plymouth of Richie Hodge this past October..I learn things from this forum all the time..make is fun all the more...

[pflaming]

What would you estimate it will cost to rechrome my bumper(s)? I know this will vary from area to area and with EPA demands probably more in CA. Thanks

[Plymouthy Adams]

350.00 per minimum and up according to area and condition of original..overriders 60-80 minimun per..they are not considered as part of the bumper when estimating..

[DJ194950]

About 3-4 months ago i got quotes in the modesto-stockton ca. area for 50 Ply. bumpers at $400 with NO straightening (extra cost as 1 place sent them to someone else for straightening) , 2nd shop did it all and great work i have seen,

price was $550 with Minor straightening and pit repair. Condition = price!

Best to ya, Fogged in yet??

Doug

[pflaming]

Fog? Only those from out of town call it fog. We call it heavy air? Thanks for the info on chrome.

[pflaming]

I haven't touched my vert for a while because I have to debug my truck, WOW, to get a system working is tedious, but to get ALL systems in sync is even beyond that!

 

On page 151 replacement engines are available. They are upgraded to include: "equipped with a special cylinder bock having .020 inch larger bores than the standard engine, and it has a .010 inch thicker wall bearings for the main and connecting rod journals".

 

I would appreciate an interpretation of those changes and the benefits.  I'm still pouring light oil in the cylinders, any suggestions as to what would be the best pre-soak oil would be. I do not know if the engine is stuck or not. If it is not, I will try to get it running before I do anything to it. Whos knows. . . . it might be an OK engine.

[JerseyHarold]

I've heard that a 50-50 mix of automatic transmission fluid and acetone is useful for soaking stuck pistons.  You may also want to dump some down the valves because they may be stuck as well.   I've also used a thin piece of plastic cut from a milk jug and ran it around the top of the piston where it meets the cylinder to scrape out loose crud.  My thinking is that it gives the soaking liquid bettter access to the rings.

Edited March 16, 2013 by JerseyHarold

[54Illinois]

On my parts Savoy, I pulled the oil pan, disconnected the rods and banged them out with a 2x4.  Also, I noticed only one piston holding wd40...and that was the froze ring piston.

[austinsailor]

I had the bumpers done on my 53 about 2 months ago. They needed straightening and were pitted a bit, at least half the old chrome was gone with rust everywhere there was no chrome.  Cost was $325 each, (an extra $25 because they were pretty rough)and $60 each for the bumper guards. All 6 pieces had bends and dings, all were straightened at that price. All came out very nice. 

 

I would suggest, if you can,. to sandblast the inside before sending them. Do NOT sandblast the surfaces to be plated. They need to be painted inside when done, as there will be little coverage and need paint to keep them from rusting inside. You can have the chrome shop do it, but it'll probably cost $25 to $50 each for them to do it. 

 

They offered 2 levels of chrome work, your standard job, and concorse.  Concorse was about $600+, and they said that unless we were going for top show level, we wouldn't care.

 

When they were done, mine look darn good. With the light just right you can see a bit of sanding showing if you look real close. At 5 feet you'd never notice, and most likely, nobody would ever notice unless they know what to look for. I'm quite pleased.

 

Mine were done at Gateway Plating in St. Louis, I would recommend them.

 

When searching for a place, I talked to many chrome shops. Prices ranged from about $150 each, to nearly $1000 each. In the end, I went with this place because a local guy I know had them done for his 53 Chevy. He's really picky and he was happy. I figured that would work.

[pflaming]

REBUILD UPDATE: I'm deep into rebuilding the harness. It should be complete by end of the week. This is a tedious task but I'm enjoying it. Many old wires have lost their color so the schematic is a MUST, for this and other reasons. I copied mine then blew it up, just too hard to read. 

 

While it is similar to the 52 truck harness, yet it is quite different. Will post pictures when I'm done. I'm following the color code,  et.al., and I'm soldering then heat shrinking the covers on the connectors. I crimped the connectors on my truck, a big mistake. 

 

(to be continued)

[knuckleharley]

That old vert won't know what hit it. Inside after all those years! When you finally get that old girl done, you will be unbelievably proud of what you accomplished and the history you saved.

 

 

Man alive,but that is a nice solid and straight car for having sat in a field for that long.

 

I never have figured out how a design that pretty can just sit around for 20 years or more out in the open without somebody wanting to buy it.

[knuckleharley]

You're right, Don. Not just Christmas, either. My daughter was telling me the toothfairy gave my 5 year old grandson $20 for losing a tooth! I gave serious thought to going out to the shop and knocking all my teeth out for some extra car money!

Since I have two sets,I could make out like a bandit on that deal!

[knuckleharley]

Vinegar works, too.

I LOVE using vinegar to remove rust. I'm a Agent Orange vet,so I'm not real crazy about exposing myself to any more chemicals,but I can use vinegar to derust metal,and then use it to kill weeds and not even have to wear rubber gloves.

[knuckleharley]

Question: This car, though scarce, is probably not rare. Would I depreciate the value if I dropped in an identical engine and not rebuild this one? I haven't opened up this engine so I have no clue what I have, but I am curious.

I found out the hard way that some states title a car or truck by engine serial number,and when the engine has been changed and the title not changed to reflect the new engine  serial number,the state of NC will seize your title and tell you that you need to go through their long process of bonding the car,getting a new VIN for it,and waiting 3 years for your new title before you can sell it to anyone else. I was lucky enough to get my 37 Dodge truck re-titled as a 1937 Dodge truck,but it now has a NC VIN number.

 

The way around this is to check your engine number versus the ID number on your title. If they number is the same make sure the title is already in your name before you swap engines. Once it is in your name you can swap engines all you want,and then apply to the DMV for a new title reflecting the new motor number (if it has a motor number),and you can avoid all that getting a bond and wasting time process.

 

If the engine you put in it doesn't have a serial number,you can apply for a new title using your body or chassis number.

 

Either way gets you a new title without any problems.

 

If it were me,I would save the old engine I pulled out  just in case your DMV theft inspector decides to pay a visit to check you and your car out. Here in NC you can count on that happening. It's mandatory.

 

If you have the original engine that was titled with the car or truck laying in your shop or backyard to show the inspector,there can be no question about the legality of what you are doing. Once you get your new title you are free to junk or sell the original engine.

[knuckleharley]

What would you estimate it will cost to rechrome my bumper(s)? I know this will vary from area to area and with EPA demands probably more in CA. Thanks

 

I paid $630 to get both of the bumpers on my P-15 re-chromed about 3 years ago,and everybody was telling me that was a great price.

 

I saw nothing great about it,even though it does seem to be what shops are charging now due to the EPA.

 

The chrome shop was in Richmond,Virginia,and they do really good work.