what motor oil for a P15?

[larryconnors]

I have always thought that I should use only non detergent oil like regular 30 weight. I was told years ago that an HD detergent oil would start my car to burning oil. I see on this forum that many folks use modern 10W30. I like the green colored pennsylvania oil rather that the blue mideast oil. What are your thoughts?

[captden29]

larry, this subject has been brought up many times and there is plenty of info. on the search forum. all different types are recommended by all different people.one point to always keep in mind is that even the cheaper oils of today are better than most oils of yesteryear. i have 2 1954 chryslers, both flatheads. one uses alot of oil, the other almost none. i use walmart 10w-40 or 30 in both. i have used others based on all the science you will get here, and it is all good and valid science. however, alot of it goes over my head so i find any oil to work well and i don't worry about the zddp content. if i spent the money on a rebuild i would pay more attention, but my cars have 72,00 and 116,00 miles. change the oil and filter regularly and use a detergent oil is my recommendation. don't make it more complicated than it has to be. capt den

[T120]

larryconnors; I like the green colored pennsylvania oil rather that the blue mideast oil. What are your thoughts?

...How about purple?...

...I agree with captden29

Edited May 15, 2012 by Ralph D25cpe

[austinsailor]

I've used Royal Purple for 15 years. I started when I had the transmission of my sailboat rebuilt. The rebuilder gave my RP ATF and said it was the best around. Then I talked to a boat racer who used it in his drag boat. He'd use it for a season, he changed it at the end, and his oil looked and smelled better than the oil of some of his competitors who changed it each race. I was sold.

[greg g]

I think you will find most of the comments regarding using detergent mutlti vis oils is from folks who have rebuilt their engines.

Also remember that conditions have changed dramaticall since your car was built. When was the last time you drove on a dirt road behind another car kicking up dust. So your car operated in a lot less severe enviroment than when it first hit the road. So its your choice. but the job of detergent oils is to suspend and transport contaminants to the oil filter trapping them there rather than letting them circulate then settle into the oil pan.

[austinsailor]

I should mention that I haven't used Royal purple in my old cars, just the new ones. I suspect it would work great, I just have drum of old formula Rotella for them with high ZDDP content.

I have cleaned the pan of each, put the modern Rotella in each, and in short order all smoking quit and they've done fine.

I believe, but can't prove, that the high detergent cleans out deposits and lets things seal better.

[T120]

I'm sure Royal Purple is a good engine oil...Interesting ,the demo on Royal Purple is almost identical to one I watched at an agricultural show probably 30 years ago.A device with the weights,etc. was also used.The gauges were not present, (30 years ago) - just visual evidence of the friction reducing properties of the product being sold,an oil additive and I can't remember what the name was.I didn't buy it...

[MarkAubuchon]

You ask, when was the last time you drove behind a speeding plymouth on a dirt road? How about last summer when those hot road plymouths just took off.

[Young Ed]

At least twice a year mine sees these roads. Ten miles from the highway to the cabin through the woods of which maybe the first 2 is paved.

[greg g]

That looks like one of those dirt roads where you need to go about 58 Mph to keep your tires on the top part of the washboard ripples that form. Great looking road! I believe that most members here would be in U turn mode when confronted by such a site.

Hey Mark, I believe you were conspicuous by your absence from that portioin of the festivities....

[Niel Hoback]

That picture reminds me of the Gunflint Trail north out of Grand Marais Minn. At least thats how it used to look. Maybe not as wide. I hear its all poaved now. Whata shame.

[Rusty O'Toole]

Chances are your car has never used anything but 10W30 detergent oil since it was built or shortly after. Detergent oil was available in 1947, multi weight from 1951. 10W30 heavy duty or detergent oil was the default choice in every gas station, dealership and garage from the fifties to the eighties.

I have in front of me a 1951 Chrysler/DeSoto/Plymouth/Dodge owner's manual issued by Chrysler Canada. It says, and I quote:

"Custom, in the past, was to use heavier (higher viscosity number) oils than at present. The use of light engine oil is an aid in cold weather starting, fuel economy, and the proper lubrication of parts.

They go on to suggest the selection of oil be based on the reputation of the refiner or manufacturer and the recommended grades for various temperatures:

Not lower than +32F = 30

As low as +10 = 20W

As low as -10 = 10W

Below -10 =5W

So, with 10W30 you are covered from -10 to 100F. For added protection you can use Shell Rotella 15W40 which is excellent oil available everywhere.

On the next page they say that the Lubricants Committee, Division of Marketing of the American Petroleum Institute defines the types of oil as follows:

Regular

Premium

Heavy Duty (detergent oil)

And recommend consulting your dealer for type and grade best suited to your requirements.

The fact is all car makers recommended heavy duty, detergent, multigrade oils as soon as they became available. Your car has likely never used anything else.

Don't listen to the self styled experts and their good ol' non detergent **************. They don't know what the hell they are talking about.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Rusty O'Toole

[greg g]

Kendall introduced the first multi-vis oil in 1953. It was a 10w30. No information on whether it was also detergents but detergent oils were introduced at about the same time.

But being introduced and being widely accepted an regularly used probably had a bit of a time gap.

I recall my father buying a new Dodge in 1960 and the recomendation was for Straight 30

By 64 when I worked in a Sunoco gas station doing oil changes, we stocked the old drum stuff that was decanted from the glass bottles with the metal funnel cap, single weight detergents and non detergents in the cardboard can and gallons that you needed the push in spout to dispense, and 10W30 in the automatic overhead filler.

Probably about 75% of the customers used the multivis detergents stuff. Some of the old guys insisted on the single weight non det, I do not think we sold much single weight detergent oil. Vehicles went from late 40's stuff through new.

A LOF Lube oil and filter included checking the air, oiling the hinges, checking the belts and hoses, checking the Coolant with a hydrometer as well as checking the battery level and specific gravity and doing the grease job, as well as the oil and filter, and checking/cleaning the air filter, and checking the brake fluid.

All for about 8 to 10 bucks. took about 45 minutes unless you ran int ozerks that wouldn't take grease. Then you put i new ones for 50 cents a piece.

[larryconnors]

Thanks for the feedback. Based on it I now feel confident in using a modern 10W30. I'll go with Penzoil since I already use it in my modern vehicles and it's the Pennsylvania grade that I like.

[Rusty O'Toole]

"Kendall introduced the first multi-vis oil in 1953. It was a 10w30. No information on whether it was also detergents but detergent oils were introduced at about the same time.

But being introduced and being widely accepted an regularly used probably had a bit of a time gap."

Other oil companies introduced multigrade oils about the same time. The earliest I have seen was 1951. Car manufacturers recommended them immediately. Detergent oils were available as far back as the thirties, in some areas. Nation wide by the late 40s. They were also recommended by car makers. I have shown that Chrysler did anyway.

On a brand new car in the late 40s and early 50s, it is likely the dealer would recommend, and the customer use, the best oil available.

"I recall my father buying a new Dodge in 1960 and the recomendation was for Straight 30"

Recommended by who? Not the dealer and not the Dodge company.

Theoretically it would have been possible for someone to buy a brand new car and use the cheapest oil in it but I doubt this happened very often.

I know someone who bought a new Chev pickup in the early 80s and proceeded to use nothing but the cheapest off brand oil he could buy. He did his own oil changes and claimed the cheapest oil was as good as the name brands, and besides he changed his oil every 2000 miles. The engine burned out in 4 or 5 years. What a knothead. For what he spent on cheap oil he could have changed it according to the manufacturer's specs, at the recommended intervals, using the correct oil and more than doubled the life of the engine. This same scenario could have happened before but if it did, the vehicle would have wound up in the junkyard a long time ago.

"By 64 when I worked in a Sunoco gas station doing oil changes, we stocked the old drum stuff that was decanted from the glass bottles with the metal funnel cap, single weight detergents and non detergents in the cardboard can and gallons that you needed the push in spout to dispense, and 10W30 in the automatic overhead filler.

Probably about 75% of the customers used the multivis detergents stuff. Some of the old guys insisted on the single weight non det, I do not think we sold much single weight detergent oil. Vehicles went from late 40's stuff through new. "

I worked at a B/A station about the same time, before they were bought out by Gulf. We sold mostly 10W30 and 20W20 heavy duty detergent oil in sealed cans. We had the bulk oil in bottles but nobody bought it. Just cheapskates driving old oil burning jalopies on their last legs who didn't care what they put in their motors. We stopped putting the bulk oil rack out on the pump island about 1967 due to lack of demand.

"A LOF Lube oil and filter included checking the air, oiling the hinges, checking the belts and hoses, checking the Coolant with a hydrometer as well as checking the battery level and specific gravity and doing the grease job, as well as the oil and filter, and checking/cleaning the air filter, and checking the brake fluid."

You forgot oiling the generator inspecting the exhaust system and possibly greasing the water pump if it was an older model. You see I did a few lube jobs myself.

Ah the good old days.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Rusty O'Toole

[greg g]

From the 1960 Dodge Dart Owners manual. Is MS oil detergent it doesn't say. The engine in dad's car went through 3 sets of rings during the first 9 month he owned the car. The shop forman told him to use nondetergent oil after they replaced the rings for the third time.

http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Dodge/1960_Dodge/1960_Dodge_Dart_Owners_Manual/1960%20Dodge%20Dart%20Manual-52.html

Edited May 17, 2012 by greg g

[Plymouthy Adams]

this subject is always fun..plenty of sources for real information..the API only sets minimum standards..not ultimate standards..anyone up for a good read can take a look here or read other articles by just searching....just like your car..it was made a certain way 60 years ago..well..so was the oil servicing it...

http://www.ultimatesyntheticoil.com/articles/API_Licensing_Amsoil_OEM_Warranties.htm

[Rusty O'Toole]

MS oil was a detergent oil. It was the highest rated oil for gas engines at that time. I'm a little surprised they recommended single grade oils along with multigrade. Everyone had gone to mutigrade by that time.