1952 Dodge powertrain swap query

[Postmandougie]

Hello all. Brand new the wonderful world of Dodges. I've recently bought a 1952 Dodge Regent. It was a sign for a business for many years, and was last on the road in 1990.

The engine is locked solid, so I have sourced a running engine and transmission from a 1947 Plymouth to replace it, both having the 25" engine and three on the tree. The '47 powertrain came complete from radiator to driveshaft.

I guess I need to know if there are any real tricks to doing the swap. My restoration background to this point has been in Triumph TR7s; needless to say this is an entirely different breed of cat. Is it simply a matter of disconnecting everything, dropping in the new powertrain and hooking it all back together? My main concern is the shift linkage, which to my untrained eyes looks fiendishly complicated, and no doubt would be a bugger if I get it wrong.

Any advice would be much appreciated!

[mochevy69]

Take lots of pictures!!!

[greg g]

Is the Dodge equiped with Fluid drive?? If so the Bellhousings are different, the dodge deeper to account for the F/D assy. You need to account for this if using the Plymouth engine bell housing.

[Postmandougie]

No, both are three on the tree cars. I will definitely take lots of photos as I go.

[greg g]

the fluid drive unit it not the transmission. the fluid drive coupling was available with manual three speeds, and semi automatics.

[Postmandougie]

I knew I was in the correct place to learn this! I'll investigate tomorrow. If the Dodge is fluid drive, is it still possible to use the Plymouth transmission, or do I need to change the Dodge one over?

[greg g]

the transmissions have different lenght input shaft length due to the depth of the bell housing.

[Phil Martin]

If you got the drive train from radiator to drive shaft what would fluid drive have to do with anything? Just use complete drive train from radiator to drive shaft. Shift linkage would be only thing that could be any problem. My 2 cents.

[Young Ed]

Except the frame mounts for a fluid drive bellhousing are in a completely different spot than the frame mounts for non fluid drive.

[Merle Coggins]

Was a non-FD 3 speed an option in the Dodge? If so it may have the mounting holes in the frame to move the cross member forward to the other location. Then the only issue may be driveshaft length.

Merle

[Young Ed]

Was a non-FD 3 speed an option in the Dodge? If so it may have the mounting holes in the frame to move the cross member forward to the other location. Then the only issue may be driveshaft length.

Merle

I believe by then all the dodges had fluid drive with either a 3spd or gyromatic

[greg g]

The point is to check, measure and verify the differences if any before pluging ahead.

[Postmandougie]

Thanks for all the advice. I don't know if it makes a difference regarding the transmission, but my car is a Canadian Dodge and I understand that they offered very limited powertrain combinations here.

I think the most intelligent thing I can do is to pull the old powertrain, set them side-by-side on the ground and compare them. If they're different, I'll move the transmission from the Dodge engine to the Plymouth engine. I have no idea as to the condition of the Dodge transmission, but I have no reason to believe that it doesn't work. From partially disassembling the current engine it appears that a blown head gasket led to the bores filling with water, so the tranny may well be OK.

I'll keep you all posted as I progress. With a little luck, I'll have the old powertrain out by Saturday and have some definitive answers.

[B-Watson]

Thanks for all the advice. I don't know if it makes a difference regarding the transmission, but my car is a Canadian Dodge and I understand that they offered very limited powertrain combinations here.

I think the most intelligent thing I can do is to pull the old powertrain, set them side-by-side on the ground and compare them. If they're different, I'll move the transmission from the Dodge engine to the Plymouth engine. I have no idea as to the condition of the Dodge transmission, but I have no reason to believe that it doesn't work. From partially disassembling the current engine it appears that a blown head gasket led to the bores filling with water, so the tranny may well be OK.

I'll keep you all posted as I progress. With a little luck, I'll have the old powertrain out by Saturday and have some definitive answers.

Your Dodge Regent is basically a Plymouth Cranbrook. Thus it came with a clutch and 3-speed manual transmission - no Fluid Drive and no Gyromatic. In Canada the Coronet offered FD and GM, but not on the Regent, Crusader or Kingsway.

The engine / transmission swap should be fairly easy. Both were basically the same from 1940 through to 1952. The 1948 wheelbase is 117" while the Regent is 118.5".

The engines in both are 218.1-cid units - 3.375" bore and 4.06" stroke. Engine number on the Plymouth should start with P15 and the Dodge D40-2. Both should end with a C.

[Postmandougie]

Thanks for the additional information Bill. Looks like this should be fairly straightforward after all. Looking forward to an uninterrupted day tomorrow to work on it.

Can anyone tell me how best to post some photos? I'd enjoy sharing them, but it seems that I have to upload them before I post them? Is there a place to do this that doesn't cost and I can add the links?

[Young Ed]

www.photobucket.com is what some of us use. I have a pro one with no ads etc but they have a freebie one.

[Plymouthy Adams]

hosting them on your own computer and uploading is as easy as 1-2-3 pictures display as thumbnails that can be enlarged in a click and you can post up to 5 pictures per post..this way there is no waiting for a large picture to download..I have not personally used my photobucket account in years..too much of a hassle..

[bamfordsgarage]

Postmandougie, eh?

You wouldn't by chance be that fellow from Camrose with the almost-certainly-only-one-in-Canada English car would you?

[greg g]

easy way is to put the pics you want to post on your desk top or in a folder on you desktop. Then when you post pucnh the "go advanced" button and use the "manage attachments" tool to browse for, select, and upload your pics in thumbnail form as Tim mentioned above.

[Postmandougie]

Alrighty, here's a side photo of the Regent. My goal is to make a driver out of it and leave the cosmetics "as-is" for now and improve it a little at a time. And yes, Bamfordsgarage, I am the postie with the almost 100% certain one of a kind Standard Vanguard Vignale automatic. I'll try and get some more photos and post them over the next little while.

[bamfordsgarage]

...and leave the cosmetics "as-is" for now and improve it a little at a time.

If it were mine I wouldn't do much improving beyond getting rid of them modern rear wheels and putting skinny tires back on.

[Don Coatney]

Bet my 48 is faster than your 18

[Rusty O'Toole]

Have you tried getting the original engine going? I have considerable experience of putting old cars back in condition and 9 times out of 10, it is easier to fix the engine than replace it.

Try filling the cylinders with oil for a week then turn the engine over by hand. I like to use automatic transmission fluid cut with kerosene or varsol but others have their own ideas. Some kind of thin oil is best. If the engine will turn over it will run.

In extreme cases you have to take the head off to free up frozen valves.

The only time I was totally stymied was a 1950 Land Rover. It had been left outdoors with the air filter off and the hood open for several years, the engine was so frozen with rust a safe cracker couldn't do anything with it. But short of that, you can usually get them going.

If the engine is stuck it is actually a good sign. It means the engine was tight. If it is all worn out and loose there is lots of room for rust and they don't freeze up as easy.

[Postmandougie]

I wish it was that easy. It looks like there was a blown headgasket and that the guy was running either water or a really weak antifreeze mix. Cylinders two and three were full of rusty water and rock solid. I soaked all the bores in a diesel/kerosene mix for two weeks and rocked it on the bar daily, all I accomplished was sloshing the mix out of the bores.