1930 Chrysler CJ build (UK)

[Joe Flanagan]

Everything looks like it's in pretty good shape. Looks like you'll have mostly cleaning and painting rather than a lot of reconstruction.

[dudford]

evening all,

just sitting down after a road trip to visit a friend. managed to do a great deal on some spare parts for my engine rebuild. I'm yet to go through it all with a fine tooth comb but essentially its two complete engines, one seized but both stripped down. Got some block numbers before i came indoors; P20143900 & P23384928.

my first thought was, and still is, that they are 218's but i looked at the pistons and they have "B-230" cast on the inside?! is that purely coincidental random numbers? i've not measure their height or diameter, as night fell and I had to get in for dinner with the kids. Its great to get hold of this Mopar stuff in the UK, really good day!

[Young Ed]

The block #s decode to 50 and 51-52 plymouths. However that is a truck bellhousing, trans, and 1 oil pan(the one with the dipstick tube). So who knows whats been going on with that stuff over the decades. The easiest way to check now is probably rod casting #s.

[dudford]

The block #s decode to 50 and 51-52 plymouths. However that is a truck bellhousing, trans, and 1 oil pan(the one with the dipstick tube). So who knows whats been going on with that stuff over the decades. The easiest way to check now is probably rod casting #s.

Thanks Ed, yeah definately 50's blocks, the truck bellhousing works out great for my 30's chassis because its completely compatible. Seized block came out of a 1946 Dodge Pickup (so not original either). I'll look at the rod castings but Im 99% sure its all 218 stuff, chap i got it off knew his stuff.

[Young Ed]

Thanks Ed, yeah definately 50's blocks, the truck bellhousing works out great for my 30's chassis because its completely compatible. Seized block came out of a 1946 Dodge Pickup (so not original either). I'll look at the rod castings but Im 99% sure its all 218 stuff, chap i got it off knew his stuff.

Funny my 46 dodge pickup has a p23 block also!

[RobertKB]

Remember there are two lengths for these blocks depending if they are US or Canadian made. US is 23" whereas the Canadian block is 25". I know you mentioned earlier which you had and hopefully these are the same.

[Joe Flanagan]

This reminds me of how I built my engine. The original block on my 49 was cracked so forum member Jim Yergin gave me a flathead out of a '53 that he had lying around (I believe that at one time it had powered his '41 woody). The block on that engine was fine, but the crankshaft was cracked. I tried the original crank from the '49, but that was cracked, too. I managed to find a good one, though. Anyway, it's good you have all those extra parts around. The '53 block I used had to be bored out .060 over. The main and rod journals on the crank I bought had to be ground, too.

Have you got a machinist lined up to work on your engine? What I did was have the machinist do all the stuff described above, then I assembled the engine myself. Twice. But that's a story for another time.

[dudford]

Remember there are two lengths for these blocks depending if they are US or Canadian made. US is 23" whereas the Canadian block is 25". I know you mentioned earlier which you had and hopefully these are the same.

Both 23" so I got 3 all together, spoilt rotten.

This reminds me of how I built my engine. The original block on my 49 was cracked so forum member Jim Yergin gave me a flathead out of a '53 that he had lying around (I believe that at one time it had powered his '41 woody). The block on that engine was fine, but the crankshaft was cracked. I tried the original crank from the '49, but that was cracked, too. I managed to find a good one, though. Anyway, it's good you have all those extra parts around. The '53 block I used had to be bored out .060 over. The main and rod journals on the crank I bought had to be ground, too.

Have you got a machinist lined up to work on your engine? What I did was have the machinist do all the stuff described above, then I assembled the engine myself. Twice. But that's a story for another time.

Yeah I got a chap whose workshop backs on to my folks house, he can handle all that you've mentioned. Like you say though, these engines really are Iron Cocktails!

No chance of getting out there today though, Snow being dumped on the UK as we speak and the schools out so sitting at the computer ruminating over what I want to get done on the coupe.

[dudford]

Had a look through the bits i got today, wanted to tidy up some.  I'm aware that some parts are truck parts and thats fine I can make that work, for what i need at least.

 

 

Having said that I am curious about a few parts I have, wondered if anyone could shed some light on them.  First up is this carb:

 

Second is the two manifolds, one with a homemade split:

 

 

Last thing to mention is the casting on the pistons.  These say 230 on them, I've yet to measure the rod length but thought it was odd as I thought these engines were 218's?!

 

[dudford]

Oh and heres a strange thing

 

These Flywheels are all different.  Two have 146 teeth (218) and one has 115 (??!?!!?) and they are all different thicknesses?!

 

[Don Coatney]

Does that carby have a float bowl?

[Young Ed]

You have  some later model stuff mixed in. That 2 barrel carb and manifold and the diff flywheel are all post 56. So maybe you have 230 guts after all? Good find on the 2barrel setup BTW they are in demand. Let me know if you aren't going to use it.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Young Ed

[greg g]

You have the beginnings of a nice little motor there.  The two barrel intake and carb were a 230 option in 1956/7 and gave a boost of 7 hp over the single barrel version.  With a bit of head milling, some port clean up work, and the split exhaust ,  you should be at around 135 to 140 Hp at the flywheel.  The flywheel situation probably is to deal withthe different crankshaft flange thicknesses used throughout the line.  The plymouths had the lightest therefor went with a thinner flange with 4 bolts holding the flywheel to the crank.  Dodges having the heavier fluid drive assembly had a thicker flange and 8 bolts fo attachment.  My 56 engine which is a 230, has a thinner flange but 6 bolts holdig it on.  I the 56 flywheel with the 46 bell housing and had no problems putting things together.  As far as the ring gears, they are easily swapped.  You machinest should be able to handle that with no problem is its necessary to fit your starter gear.  They have to heat up the ring gear to get it to expand enough to come off.  Then the flywheel gets chilled and ring gear heated to affect installation.  I would have you head shaved about .060 which will bring your compression ratio to around 8 to 1 or a bit more. This will give you some extra ommmph, and still allow you still run what passes for regular gas these days.  George Asche has said you can go to 090 off and still run 87 octane.

If you don't know if the head/s have ever been shaved, have your shop take some off the block like .010 to .015, then the rest off the head as you see fit.

 

The carb should be a carter BBD (http://www.carbkitsource.com/carbs/tech/Carter/BBD-index.html)  these were on a variety of mopar engines and Jeeps till the onset of fuel injection.

[Young Ed]

Also you've got a mix of truck parts and the trucks seem to have had a heavier flywheel for low speed lugging.

[Frank Elder]

Also you've got a mix of truck parts and the trucks seem to have had a heavier flywheel for low speed lugging.

Question....lighter flywheel quicker take off......heavy flywheel smoother running?

[Young Ed]

Question....lighter flywheel quicker take off......heavy flywheel smoother running?

 

I believe thats how it works.

[Don Coatney]

For an interesting read on flywhells follow this link.

 

http://www.clubhotrod.com/drag-racing/17636-flywheels-dragsters.html

[dudford]

You have the beginnings of a nice little motor there.  The two barrel intake and carb were a 230 option in 1956/7 and gave a boost of 7 hp over the single barrel version.  With a bit of head milling, some port clean up work, and the split exhaust ,  you should be at around 135 to 140 Hp at the flywheel.  The flywheel situation probably is to deal withthe different crankshaft flange thicknesses used throughout the line.  The plymouths had the lightest therefor went with a thinner flange with 4 bolts holding the flywheel to the crank.  Dodges having the heavier fluid drive assembly had a thicker flange and 8 bolts fo attachment.  My 56 engine which is a 230, has a thinner flange but 6 bolts holdig it on.  I the 56 flywheel with the 46 bell housing and had no problems putting things together.  As far as the ring gears, they are easily swapped.  You machinest should be able to handle that with no problem is its necessary to fit your starter gear.  They have to heat up the ring gear to get it to expand enough to come off.  Then the flywheel gets chilled and ring gear heated to affect installation.  I would have you head shaved about .060 which will bring your compression ratio to around 8 to 1 or a bit more. This will give you some extra ommmph, and still allow you still run what passes for regular gas these days.  George Asche has said you can go to 090 off and still run 87 octane.

If you don't know if the head/s have ever been shaved, have your shop take some off the block like .010 to .015, then the rest off the head as you see fit.

 

The carb should be a carter BBD (http://www.carbkitsource.com/carbs/tech/Carter/BBD-index.html)  these were on a variety of mopar engines and Jeeps till the onset of fuel injection.

Thanks for that Greg I'll read up, measure up and see what'll work best and yes you're right on the BBD carb.

 

You have  some later model stuff mixed in. That 2 barrel carb and manifold and the diff flywheel are all post 56. So maybe you have 230 guts after all? Good find on the 2barrel setup BTW they are in demand. Let me know if you aren't going to use it.

I think the 230 flywheel should have 176 teeth or something near that so I'm not sure that the fw is froma 230 but you might be right that some parts are.  If i dont use the carb I'll let you know

 

For an interesting read on flywhells follow this link.

 

http://www.clubhotrod.com/drag-racing/17636-flywheels-dragsters.html

 Haha I like the reply by "Big Tracks", the 170ci Mopar slant six building up a tonne of ineretia at the flywheel then peeled it all away to the lights to clinch a win.  Doesn't seem to be a best choice, heavy or light, really depends on what you're using it for.

 

Should I get anytime on the weekend (might take my kids up to the London Science Museum) I would like to get out to the garage to a: attempt to unseize one of the blocks

 

 

and b: measure up the rods and see if they measure 715/16" or 713/16". There are two other things you chaps might be able to help out with, i have a gearbox and a heater that I'd like a little info on if possible, I'm assuming the gearbox is dodge as thats what it was pulled from, its covered in underseal so no numbers or markings to discern from:

 

 

 

and the heater:

 

 

[Young Ed]

I think the 230 flywheel should have 176 teeth or something near that so I'm not sure that the fw is froma 230 but you might be right that some parts are.  If i dont use the carb I'll let you know

 

Post 1956 mopar had a ring gear tooth count change. I think by then they were only making the 230 by then hence my comment.

 

 

and the heater:

 

 

 

I don't recognize that but the DPCD logo looks fairly old. I can see where it says heater model xxx. Post that # if its readable.

[TodFitch]

I'm assuming the gearbox is dodge as thats what it was pulled from, its covered in underseal so no numbers or markings to discern from:

 

 

I don't recognize the application for that transmission but on this forum that "underseal" is often call "under coatney" in honor of Don.

[greg g]

Ah yes the fine veneer of oil mist and road dust that accumulates on under carriage parts.  Natures best under coat(ney)ting.  Nothig but some Kerosene, scraping, wire brushing and liberal amounts of elbow grease won't remove.  Almost as much fun as cosmoline.....

[dudford]

Got back from a frustrating wasted road trip wherein I did not buy a T5 tranny today so I took my anger out on dropping the front end off my chassis... its like therapy but better!

 

 

 

and breathe...

[Joe Flanagan]

. . . and rebuild your kingpins. Fun job. 

[hkestes41]

Greg was right about changing the ring gear to get the proper tooth count on the proper flywheel, but you do not have to take it to a machine shop to get it done. You can support the flywheel on a cinder block or something non-combustible and then use a propane torch to heat the ring gear enough to get it to fall off or at most a little whack with a rawhide or rubber mallet. That is how I did mine.

Then when I was ready to put it on the new flywheel I waited until the wife was gone to shopping and wrapped the flywheel with Saran Wrap (to protect the freezer contents) and put it in the freezer. Put aluminum foil on the grate to my gas BBQ grill and put the ring gear in the BBQ grill. Left them in there for about 15-20 minutes and the ring gear just fell onto the flywheel.

All it cost was a little propane and the gamble of my wife coming home early to find the flywheel in the freezer.

[greg g]

Uhhh what's this weird looking pizza in the freezer Hun?????