Who's replaced their wheels...

[blueskies]

... with painted or powder coated steel wheels, that will hold a stock hub cap?

I want to replace my stock wheels, and run WWW radials. My existing wheels have a mix of round and oval stem holes, and they don't hold air. My bias ply WWW are tubeless, but have tubes in them. There are a handfull of weights on each of them to get them "mostly" balanced.

The problem, it seems, is getting a new wheel that will hold the stock caps. I'd like to keep the caps, on new wheels. I asked Stockton Wheel about rebuilding the existing wheels, and powder coating them, and damn near fell over at the price... I don't want a chrome universal wheel, or a wheel with small caps and trim rings.

Any other thoughts?

[Young Ed]

Pete I wonder why your wheels don't hold air? I have a mix like you do and have no trouble with the radials on my coupe or pickup. Both those have the small caps so I can't comment on whether they would stay on or not. My dads former 54 ford with radials liked to chuck the front wheel covers on turns we assumed from wheel flex.

I wonder if the steel wheels like Norm has would handle a regular cap. I know he has a set of 53 ply full covers for his car.

[Don Coatney]

Pete;

Contact wheelvintiques at the link below. I believe Greg G and possibly a few others are using there painted wheels. I am using there chrome wheels.

http://www.wheelvintiques.com/

[James_Douglas]

Pete,

I had Stockton Wheel make me a set of 4 custom wheels that fit my 5x5.5 hubs and had a 2.75" back space to clear my front disks.

The cost was $87 each or $348 without shipping. These wheels can take a full size wheel cover, but not the little caps unless I take off and fit the original clips. I happen to use a 49 full cover as it is easy to get on and off.

The work was very nice and I painted them with a good etching primer then a few coats of black.

I guess I have been living in CA too long as the cost of the rims and the custom work to weld it did not seem that much to me.

Best, James

[Don Coatney]

My dads former 54 ford with radials liked to chuck the front wheel covers on turns we assumed from wheel flex.

I wonder if the steel wheels like Norm has would handle a regular cap. I know he has a set of 53 ply full covers for his car.

Ed;

My guess is that Norm has probably driven less than a tenth of a mile pulling in and out of the garage but to the best of my knowledge he has not lost a hubcap so far. Perhaps sometime this coming summer we can prod him into driving his P-15 around a corner to see how his hub caps stay on. :D

[Young Ed]

Whew I guess I really set him up for that one. I'm kind of curious to see the answer to this because I've thought about getting trim rings for my 46 but I'm not sure if they would stay attached with the radials. I don't want to be constantly fetching them from the side of the road or having to take them off all together and then having scrape marks in my nice black wheels.

[BobT-47P15]

I had some used radials on my wire wheels a few years ago....I simply bought radial tubes and had no problems. Can't speak to your balance situation, if your wheels are a little off in that regard. I would think that most aftermarket rims would hold the full wheel covers. Norm is running a set of the flipper wheel covers on his aftermarket wheels.

[blueskies]

Pete;

Contact wheelvintiques at the link below.

Don,

What width wheel are you running? I'm thinking about 15x5. My stockers are 15x4.5.

I phoned Wheelvintiques moments ago, and got a few price quotes for primered and powdercoated wheels.

Primered wheels are $75.32 each and $70.00 each, for a couple of different styles, $35 each for powder coating, $10 each for custom backspace if necessary. I would probably just get the cheaper version, as the pattern of the wheel itself is not important to me.

Anyone know the stock backspacing for a 1950 wheel off the top of their head?

Joe at WV seems to think their wheels will hold the caps, but I'm wondering if the valve stems will locate correctly. These caps have a large hole for the valve stem, and a stainless cover for the stem that is held in place by the stem cap. Might not be able to use the stainless cover on the stem.

Here's their $75 dollar wheel:

Pete

[blueskies]

The cost was $87 each or $348 without shipping. These wheels can take a full size wheel cover, but not the little caps unless I take off and fit the original clips. I happen to use a 49 full cover as it is easy to get on and off.

James-

Looks like Wheel Vintiques is about $30 cheaper for a custom backspace wheel, and I liked the guy on the phone at WV alot better...

I've dealt with Stockton before though, and happy with the result.

Pete

[Don Coatney]

Pete;

If I recall correctly I am using 15X5 wheels.

[blueskies]

One other issue that just occured to me...

The stock drums have the locating pins. Can these cut off if the new wheels dont have a matching hole?

Pete

[teardrop puller]

Pete

I have wheels that came off a Ford Bronco/Rranger. They are nice and wide and fit well under the car. They also clear my rear disk brakes. They are the steal ones not the aluminum ones and hold my hub caps great.

kai

[TodFitch]

Among other things Blueskies wrote

. . . There are a handfull of weights on each of them to get them "mostly" balanced. . .

I have just installed new tires on my 1933 and, out of curiosity, weighed and measured things as I was doing the work. I was surprised by a number of things. I used a vintage static tire balancer borrowed from another Plymouth owner to balance the new tires.

First, all but one of my wheels was pretty well balanced when no tire was mounted. And all wheels were within the 1930s specifications for radial and lateral runout. Actually they were lots better than that on runout and nearly as good as modern wheels that run a much higher speeds.

Second, the tube and tire weigh more than the wheel. This surprised me.

Third, all of the tire/tube/wheel assemblies took a fair amount of weight to balance out.

This implies the tire/tube, at least on my car, has the bigger contribution to imbalance than the wheel.

Mind you this is specific to my 1933 vintage wire wheels and the relatively few choices of tires available in the 525/550-17 size.

Still, I found it interesting that the tires are in my case more of an issue than the wheels for balance as well as lateral and radial runout.

I guess it pays to buy good tires if what you get is better balanced, has less radial/lateral runout, etc.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I have replaced wheels, axles and spindles and a few other things on all my cars except the 54. The 1949 I used 15 inch Chrysler 5th Ave. wheels and the wire wheel hub caps to match. Is a nice fit..when I sold it I gave the man a chice of stock or the newer..he also perferred the 5th Aves over stock though I had the full beauty rim and 10 inch caps. The 52 is running 1998 Dodge Intrepid 16 aluminum wheels but also has a rear end that is about 6 inches wider than stock so the positive offset is just right. The 1941 Dodge has 5 spoke aluminum factory wheels from a Sport Caravan..15 inch diameter. and the 51 Ply Suburban with the Dakota rear gear and front sub frame I have stock Dakota rim and dog dish on there for a perfect fit in 15 inch but will eventually get the Jeep Canyons, 15 x 7 aluminum dished wheels. Whatever you choose to upgrade with just measure your backset and go from there..I found the stock Chrysler and Dakota to be very nice upgrades if you are sticking with steel rims..Dakota pre 93 I think is 5 lug..after that is 6 lug and no go.

[Young Ed]

Pete you can see my truck came with aftermarket tires. The PO had knocked off all the guide pins. I haven't had any issues with tires falling off or drums coming off the hubs etc. However without that pin its a PITA to get a tire on and a bolt started. Of course my truck has 215/85 R16s. They are kinda bulky

I still have these wheels around for putting on parts cars etc. However I have since drilled an extra hole in each for that pin.

[blueskies]

This implies the tire/tube, at least on my car, has the bigger contribution to imbalance than the wheel.

Tod-

I would imagine that my Coker Classic tires are major contributors to the balancing issue. These tires are sort of niche market tires, and probably aren't used for daily transport by most folks that buy them, so I wonder about the quality control.

Mine are now 7 years old, and only have about 6500 miles on them. The tread still looks new. However, the white sidewalls of the tires are drying out, and are surface checked. They are probably fine, but I'm not all that excited about putting 3000 miles on them at high speed.

Radials would be much less effort to drive I'm sure...

Pete

[James_Douglas]

James-

Looks like Wheel Vintiques is about $30 cheaper for a custom backspace wheel, and I liked the guy on the phone at WV alot better...

I've dealt with Stockton before though, and happy with the result.

Pete

Pete, The main reason I went with Stockton was that it was closer. My spindles, hubs, and uprights are the same as the big Chrysler 8 which are all bigger than everything else.

I had to take my spare hub to them once I had the large disk kit back and we had to "play" to get the offset correct and not hit the fender on the rears.

The people at SW are a little bit rough to deal with sometimes as the place is very busy. I do like the guy that does the custom work in back, but he does not have to sit on the phone all day....

James

[greg g]

I got Wheel vintiques ( model 20 smoothies if I remember correctly) 5 X15 wiht a 3 1/2 inch back space. They were unpainted. Got them from Summit for 37 buck each. I can't see any reason why they would not accept the full wheel cover. I have trim rings with a similar mounting style and they have stayed with me for 3 years.

[Norm's Coupe]

Don,

What width wheel are you running? I'm thinking about 15x5. My stockers are 15x4.5.

I phoned Wheelvintiques moments ago, and got a few price quotes for primered and powdercoated wheels.

Primered wheels are $75.32 each and $70.00 each, for a couple of different styles, $35 each for powder coating, $10 each for custom backspace if necessary. I would probably just get the cheaper version, as the pattern of the wheel itself is not important to me.

Anyone know the stock backspacing for a 1950 wheel off the top of their head?

Joe at WV seems to think their wheels will hold the caps, but I'm wondering if the valve stems will locate correctly. These caps have a large hole for the valve stem, and a stainless cover for the stem that is held in place by the stem cap. Might not be able to use the stainless cover on the stem.

Here's their $75 dollar wheel:

Pete

Pete, I have Wheel Vintique 15 x 5 on my P15 coupe and they are fine. If you are using original full wheel covers they should fit the wheel just fine. I'm running aftermarket full wheel covers on my coupe without a problem. I also recently picked up a set of 53 Plymouth original full wheel covers and those also fit the Vintique wheel without a problem.

[Guest flathead6]

Pete,

Steve Hanks form Moscow, Idaho...

Pete, I took my 1948 b-1-b truck rims to Les Schwab and they sandblasted them and powder coated them for $25 bucks a wheel. They look great.

They ship semi truck rims out to the same place and ship back to local dealer. It took less than one week.

I do have a set of four rims 15 inch that have been widened.... I got them off a 48/49 Desoto.... back space? I'd be happy to find them a home on your rig. Give me a call.

208-791-7313

Steve

[Don Coatney]

One other issue that just occured to me...

The stock drums have the locating pins. Can these cut off if the new wheels dont have a matching hole?

Pete

Pete;

The locating pins are not an issue with me as I now have studs front and back. However the wheel vintique wheels have two sets of holes so they will fit a multitude of vehicles. The set of holes not used might work for the locator pin.

[grey beard]

I'm struggling to understand why Mr. Fitch opted for static wheel balancing in this day of dy6namic computer balancing. Years ago, static balancing was all we had available, and I've balanced many wheels via this fashion. But there is simply no comparison between static and dynamic cojputer balancing for getting the mass to run smoothly at high speeds with no tire cupping or other wear from balancing issues. I see no up side to static balancing. But then maby I'm missing something here. Any thoughts?

[greg g]

I believe the wheels on his early Plymouth resist mounting on a dynamic machine.

[Plymouthy Adams]

There is good and bad for them all...and if you watch real close on your dynamic balance..if they run your tire up..tack on the wieghts..spin to check and then tack another weight..you just balanced a balance..plus if you do not remove the weights on your tires before a scheduled rotate and balance..you generally get this same thing..your balance will be balanced instead of redoing the whole nine yards. It is all about time and time is money in the industry. I for one have a static balancer..if you use the correct method this will provide best of wear and balance to your tires. Adding weight is easy to center the bubble...doing it right in another matter altogether. I also have a strobe light balancer..and have not been very luck at finding the adapter and spin balancer adapters which is the best of all methods. As for Mr. Fitch preferring the bubble blancer..I have to agree with him...done proper it cannot be beat...and yes I have run my tires to 130MPH..and on closing when you buy your tires, look for the cast mark for proper alignment to your rim for proper mounting and balancing. Most tire shops who thrive on the industry have no clue what I am talking about...It has been a few days but yes my training was officailly conducted by Firestone...a requirement for selling their product.

The tires that a certian supplier sells for these vintage cars is some of the worse junk on the market requiring more weight than you would ever imagine..by todays standards and tire production methods this should not be the case...for that reason alone I would not consider anything less than a modern radial. When using tires of this low-quality the tire will be best suited in my opinion to the static balance uing the 4 weight system.

[BobT-47P15]

I think I would, if necessary, drill an extra hole for the guide pin. It does help. Getting a bolt or two started can be a real pain without it.