HanksB3B Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 (edited) No offense, this just doesn't sound right. No one has answered the question as to whether a paper filter works in our by-pass cannister. Like you I'd love to ditch the sock in favor of simply dropping a paper filter in and be done with it, however this is what I think: Oil is pumped up to the top of the by pass through the tube in the middle and then it trickles onto the perforated half moon, (the purpose of which is to distribute the oil evenly) over the surface of the sock which then is moved through the sock filter by gravity and pressure, till the clean oil reaches the bottom where the clean oil re-circulates back into the engine. On the other hand, (and I hope I'm wrong) the paper filter would work in this manner: Oil pumped to the top of the filter through the center tube would then distribute itself over the perforated half moon, then drop onto the solid metal surface of the paper filter, spill over and just simply drop straight down between the outer circumference of the paper filter and the inside circumference of the by-pass filter housing. What I honestly think: It would be better to stuff an old t-shirt, a diaper (preferably unused), a couple of sanitary napkins (mega ditto), or steal one of grampa's depends (double mega ditto) and use it as an oil filter rather than to use a paper filter not designed for our trucks. Comments and criticism greatly appreciated. Hope I'm wrong, Hank Edited August 19, 2011 by HanksB3B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Look closely at how your filter is constructed. Different filter manufacturers made there filters differently and as such they use different types of filter elements. Also make note as to where the inlet and outlet are. They are also not all the same. Chrysler didn't make filters for these engines. They used filters from different filter suppliers. Sometimes they didn't even put a filter on an engine. My truck didn't have a filter when I got it. I found one and installed it when I rebuilt the engine. Mine happens to be made by the Deluxe Filter Company and it is designed to use a "JC" filter element (this crosses to the Napa 1011 sock filter). I found this clearly stamped into the cover. The connection points are clearly stamped "OUT" at the fitting in the outer canister near the top, and "IN" at the bottom. When I look inside I can see that the inner tube is hollow and has holes through it about halfway up. The threaded T-bolt seals off the top end of the tube and the perforated dome ends keeps the filter element below the outlet port. This filter works by pumping the oil up through the center and allowing it to flow through the sock filter until it migrates up into the top space where it can flow through the outlet port and back to the sump. From what I've seen, other filter manufacturers, like Fram, used a paper type filter element. But if you look closely at them they also function differently. They will have the "Inlet" at the top outside of the filter canister and the "Outlet" at the bottom center. With these filters the oil enters at the top and floods the canister with oil. The oil then migrates through the filter element from outside-in where it then enters the center tube and flows back to the sump. This type of filter requires a good seal between the top and bottom plates of the filter element against the center tube. If it doesn't seal against the tube the oil will just bypass the filter element and go back to the engine unfiltered. You wouldn't want to bypass your bypass filter. So, bottom line... be sure you now which type of filter you have and do your best to determine which filter element this filter canister requires. If you try to put a paper element into a canister that requires a sock type it will likely not filter properly. Even if you do have a good seal against the center tube so that the oil is forced through the filter element, a paper pleated filter element is designed for the oil to go from the outside to the inside. The pleats aren't designed to have the oil flow the other direction and it won't function properly. I was lucky in that my filter was clearly stamped with the manufacturer and element type. With that information I could use Napa's or Wix's cross reference guides to determine their filter element numbers. Clean yours up well and look for any distinguishing marks so that you can determine which filter element to use. Merle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanksB3B Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Thanks Merle! Hank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B1B Keven Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 (edited) Thanks Merle! I just went and looked and mine has exactly the same filter housing. "The Deluxe Prod. Corp. Laporte ID". "Model JC filter-use JC cartridge JCUS-30 gasket". Edited October 18, 2011 by B1B Keven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Maxwell Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Thanks also Merle. I looked closely at mine and the wording is EXACTLY the same as yours and B1B Keven. My tube at the top is stamped outlet, but there is nothing stamped at the bottom tube (at least that I can see). Thus, it would appear that I have the wrong cartridge on the way next week. Bummer! The cartridge that was in the filter can is clearly not original after all this time. It is probably a paper unit that will be very similar to what arrives next week. Thanks again for the schooling. I guess it's back to Plan B (whatever that is). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave72dt Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 CarQuest #85071, paper cartidge filter, 3 3/8 x 4 1/4 tall, center hole is 1/2" on one end and 5/8" on the other. Rubber gasket for the lid is 4 5/8" OD and is 5/16" wide. Likely for the later housings as it's listed for later years than the Pilothouse as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-T-53 Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Even if you do have a good seal against the center tube so that the oil is forced through the filter element, a paper pleated filter element is designed for the oil to go from the outside to the inside. The pleats aren't designed to have the oil flow the other direction and it won't function properly. Would you say this is due to surface area difference from outside to in...or does the paper have different mesh sizes on each side? I have the paper element installed (I think it's the 1080), and have the same canister as yours (outlet at top). I quit buying the sock elements because they are all too big and don't fit. I'm also missing the perforated dome, but this would clearly not work with the ill-fitting sock element. I know there's been talk of Wix now making the correct smaller size socks, but every time I've ordered a 1011 they are all still too big. What's the current status on the sock sizes found in boxes these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Yes, the pleats are open around the outside and close together on the inside. This allows the oil to flow between the pleats better from outside-in. I gave up on the Napa/Wix sock filters too. I now have some Baldwin filters but I haven't installed one yet to provide any feedback. Merle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferdball Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Status: my just purchased napa 1011 sock did NOT want to go in. But I make it. And I can definately see the problem with paper IF for the system to work proper it needs to filter top to bottom. My 2€ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontknowitall Posted August 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Merle, at what us price? the Baldwin filters? Yes, the pleats are open around the outside and close together on the inside. This allows the oil to flow between the pleats better from outside-in. I gave up on the Napa/Wix sock filters too. I now have some Baldwin filters but I haven't installed one yet to provide any feedback. Merle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B1B Keven Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Merle, at what us price? the Baldwin filters? JC405 (BDN) $13.99 http://www.baxterautoparts.com/Order/OrderFormInterchange.aspx?mode=search or search 'Baldwin JC405'. http://www.adiesel.com/baldwinfilters/JC405.html I know where I'm going next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontknowitall Posted August 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 thanks but that is not the one I use..mine is a paper one.. New Baldwin Engine Oil Filter for - Dodge Fargo Utility Truck 1955, and most models 1953 thru 1957 - This offer is for one cartridge oil filter part number P73 - specs are 14.3 & 20.6mm (9/16 & 13/16in) ID - 88.1mm (3.15/32in) OD - 106.4mm (4.3/16in) High - Replaces dodge part no. 1121694 A1725997 - equivelant of Ryco part no. R407P - Australian applications above and below are based on info from early Ryco catalogues and are a little vague, confirm by checking dimensions prior to purchase Additional applications listed are - Case D S Series Tractor - Chrysler Industrial Engines with 4.3/16 long filter - Desoto Car, models with fluid drive 1946 thru 1951 - Dodge D24 Car, with fluid drive 1946 thru 1951 - Dodge Phoenix, some models 1960 thru 1968 - Dodge Truck most models, 1946 thru 1952 - Dodge Fargo Ute 1955, and most models 1953 thru 1957 - Federal 13M2 16M 16M2 16Q 18M 18Q 18Q2 Truck, 1947 thru 1952 - Hercules JX Engine (when equipped) - Massey Harris 20K 30K Tractor - Packard Car, all models 1948 thu 1955 - Plymouth Car, some V8 models, 1958 thru 1962 - Rambler & Nash Car, some models 1946 thru 1954 - Waukesha IGK FC XAH Engine, some (where fitted) - Willys Jeep and Station Wagon 1946 thru 1955 - Yale 8000 LB Forklift with Chrysler IND30 Engine - http://www.adiesel.com/store/itemdetail.php?stocknumber=P73 JC405 (BDN) $13.99http://www.baxterautoparts.com/Order/OrderFormInterchange.aspx?mode=search or search 'Baldwin JC405'. http://www.adiesel.com/baldwinfilters/JC405.html I know where I'm going next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontknowitall Posted August 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 just bought 2 baldwins http://www.adiesel.com/store/itemdetail.php?stocknumber=P73 cheap as chips! $8 each Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdad1951 Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Yes, the pleats are open around the outside and close together on the inside. This allows the oil to flow between the pleats better from outside-in. I gave up on the Napa/Wix sock filters too. I now have some Baldwin filters but I haven't installed one yet to provide any feedback. Merle having been a filter engineer for 4 or so years in a previous life, Merle has the basics right. Designing filters you always have to worry about how it performs and where the pressures are. Filtering towards the core always provides more support for the pleats than towards the outside. If you flow backwards on the filter you can actually pull the pleats out at the end caps and have bypass. Also some pleated filters are designed with differing filtering levels in layers on the pleats, with the tightest towads the core. These and other esoteric considerations all lead towards the final result you want: a filter that performs well and has the desired life. Running the filter backwards will almost always cause a catostophic failure at some point, along with shorter filter life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanksB3B Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Mark, So is what you and Merle and dontknowitall are saying that the Baldwin Filters will work in our truck? I have a sock-type filter from vpw that they say will work but haven't installed it to see if it's just the same old WIX one that is too tall and too fat. Would really like the convenience of a drop-in paper filter, so I have my fingers crossed the unequivocal answer will be Yes! Thanks, Hank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdad1951 Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 if the oil is coming up through the core you'd have to get a filter specifically designed for that type of flow, or at some random point you will have issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanksB3B Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Mark, Well I have the same bi-pass filter housing that Merle has. Does that help in getting me a yea or nay answer? Thanks, Hank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 If your filter was designed to use the sock type filter element, than you NEED to use the sock type filter element if you want it to perform properly. Sorry, Merle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdad1951 Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Mark,Well I have the same bi-pass filter housing that Merle has. Does that help in getting me a yea or nay answer? Thanks, Hank I believe you have the same as mine and it is a filter that feeds the core. I'd strongly recommend against using a pleated unless it is designed for such an application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanksB3B Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 What is the difference between a bi-pass filter that was designed for the sock and a bi-pass filter that is designed (or works with) the pleated paper type filter. Am I missing something? Thanks, Hank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBF Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 I think its just based on the type and manufacturer of the cannister. From experience, I think the sock type may offer more filter area. I remember ads in Popular Mechanics (when I was a kid) that you buy a filter that used rolls of toilet paper. Not too sure how that worked out, but I know of one guy that tried this in a sock type cannister and ruined a good engine as the pieces of paper got in the engine. I can say that during the early 70's I successfully used sanitary napkins in a sock type cannister in my 53 Chevy when I could no longer get the cartridges. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmopar Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Another option is to use a adapter for a newer style spin on. http://www.jegs.com/c/Oil-System_Oil-Filter-Adapters/10467/10002/-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubeviper Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I know that many folks do not like to use the sock-type element but isn't that what you have to use with a bypass filter? If a full flow filter element is used in a bypass filter, will problems develop, the least of which is a drop in oil pressure? It was my understanding that one should really use a bypass element in a bypass filter setup. Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 From the factory (probably as a dealer install option) there were three different bypass filters: A sealed canister which is hard to find nowadays as WIX stopped making them about 15 years ago and two different housings one of which takes a paper filter (most common) and a different "heavy duty" one that takes the "sock type" filter. So if you have a Mopar replaceable element bypass filter it might take the sock element or it might take the paper element. All oil going into the filter bypasses the engine. If the flow is too high then the oil pressure could drop especially at idle. However on all the Plymouth engines built from near the end of 1933 on the return flow from the filter goes through a shut off circuit built into the pressure relief valve. The way that is set up, if the engine oil pressure drops too low the flow through the bypass filter is shut off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanksB3B Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) All oil going into the filter bypasses the engine. If the flow is too high then the oil pressure could drop especially at idle. However on all the Plymouth engines built from near the end of 1933 on the return flow from the filter goes through a shut off circuit built into the pressure relief valve. The way that is set up, if the engine oil pressure drops too low the flow through the bypass filter is shut off. The bi-pass oil filter might possiblly be why our engines have been around for so long. Amsoil sells a bi-pass oil filter (for big rigs and it's $pricey$) After running their Amsoil Synthetic oil for something like one million mles with no oil changes, the engine is taken apart and wear tolerances taken. There is virtuall no wear. Hank Edited June 7, 2015 by HanksB3B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.