Dave72dt Posted April 26, 2011 Report Posted April 26, 2011 The bolts will carry the ground well enough as long as there isn't paint under the heads. Nothing wrong with painting everything. I'd wait on touching up what you've just scraped off until after the "current" problem is solved. Battery box and cables will go a LONG way towrds solving the starter issue. Parts counter jumper cables are only good intentions for the most part. Well adjusted, new or freshly relined rear shoes should keep the cyl pistons within it's recommended travel range. Max dia are sometimes cast into the drum. If not, a shop that turns drums may be able to give you the max spec. Some parts houses have there own in house machine shop. Also, they may have come that far out on your initial installation and may have never been fully seated. Put them back in with them fully collapsed, measure your drum diameter ( they're off at this point anyway), call some machine shops to get max dia. If you had them trued up at a shop, they would have (should have) refused to turn them past max and advised you of the same. Adjust brakes out as well as possible and then bleed them out. You could even adjust them out to binding and drum lockup, then bleed and then readjust drums for turning. Quote
JBNeal Posted April 26, 2011 Report Posted April 26, 2011 I'm curious how these new brake shoes were adjusted...if they aren't set within the specifications in the manual using that special tool or a homemade version, then the shoes won't contact the drums properly or the wheel cylinder will stroke out before adequate shoe/drum contact is made. There's a way to set the shoes without the tool, but it's kinda like cracking a safe: ya gotta make major & minor adjustments and listen to the shoe contact while the drum is spun by hand. Quote
ggdad1951 Posted April 26, 2011 Author Report Posted April 26, 2011 yah, we did the "crackin' the safe" way...it's what my friend is most conversant with. Needless to say I'm gonna make a tool. Quote
Dave72dt Posted April 26, 2011 Report Posted April 26, 2011 Get your tool made and try readjusting first. You can still start the engine if the brakes aren't finshed. Quote
ggdad1951 Posted April 26, 2011 Author Report Posted April 26, 2011 Get your tool made and try readjusting first. You can still start the engine if the brakes aren't finshed. wow, did you get the text I sent to my buddy? That is almost verbatim what I said for this weekend's work! Quote
HanksB3B Posted April 27, 2011 Report Posted April 27, 2011 Needless to say I'm gonna make a tool. A pox on Ammco 1750's on eBay for over $350-$500. CNC Rules! Hank Mark: Please put me down for one. Quote
Dave72dt Posted April 27, 2011 Report Posted April 27, 2011 wow, did you get the text I sent to my buddy? That is almost verbatim what I said for this weekend's work! I don't text. This is as close as I get. Don't have a cell phone either. As many times as I go back to correct spelling on this thing, I can't imagine how long it would take on one of those. No, it come from business. When stopped on one part of a project for whatever reason, there is often some other part that can be moved forward or a different project alltogether that needs work. Wasn't uncommon to have three of four projects going at once, all in varying stages. Quote
ggdad1951 Posted April 27, 2011 Author Report Posted April 27, 2011 I don't text. This is as close as I get. Don't have a cell phone either. As many times as I go back to correct spelling on this thing, I can't imagine how long it would take on one of those.No, it come from business. When stopped on one part of a project for whatever reason, there is often some other part that can be moved forward or a different project alltogether that needs work. Wasn't uncommon to have three of four projects going at once, all in varying stages. heh, it was just funny you post what I basically sent my buddy, not inferring you got a text! Same for me at work, I've got about 5 irons in the fire at a time. But on personal projects I tend to be more focused on one thing at a time. Quote
ggdad1951 Posted April 30, 2011 Author Report Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) well, took your advice today. On a break from playing wood (making end tables for my current client), I popped out to the garage and hooked the battery up with the REAL cables....and....it turned over! Now, just gotta get a few more things ready and maybe next weekend we actually fire her up! THANKS SO MUCH GUYS! P.S. So a friend comes over and I was going to show off and the dang starter won't engage the fly wheel now???? Is this the trial and error portion of the build? Edited April 30, 2011 by ggdad1951 Quote
Dave72dt Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) Roll the engine over a little by hand and try again. 1 of several things wrong. tooth to tooth contact on the points, ring gear on flywheel badly worn at that section, drive key/bolt sheared on starter drive, broken starter spring, sprague in starter drive not locking if a new style drive After you've been embarrassed enough times, it'll work perfectly for a long time until you're confident again. Then it'll surprise you with some sort of reality check when you least expect it or need it. Edited April 30, 2011 by Dave72dt Quote
Merle Coggins Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 After you've been embarrassed enough times, it'll work perfectly for a long time until you're confident again. Then it'll surprise you with some sort of reality check when you least expect it or need it. A truer statement couldn't have been made. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted May 1, 2011 Report Posted May 1, 2011 the ole truck is just a simple and humble piece of machinery..it is try to keep its owner the same...it happens.. Quote
ggdad1951 Posted May 1, 2011 Author Report Posted May 1, 2011 Roll the engine over a little by hand and try again. 1 of several things wrong. tooth to tooth contact on the points, ring gear on flywheel badly worn at that section, drive key/bolt sheared on starter drive, broken starter spring, sprague in starter drive not locking if a new style driveAfter you've been embarrassed enough times, it'll work perfectly for a long time until you're confident again. Then it'll surprise you with some sort of reality check when you least expect it or need it. soooo 1. tooth to tooth contact...I've tried it several times and no engagements. Remedy? 2. worn ring gear, solution is replacement correct? 3. drive key sheared, pull the starter and fix? 4. broken spring, pull starter and fix? 5. sprague not locking? no idea what to do there. Today while glue sets up on end tables, I'm gonna pull the starter and take a peek at the flywheel there as well as the starter in general. if it is none of those? The switch has the adjustment on it, do I need to play with that? Which way would i turn it to do what? damn singing frog! Quote
JBNeal Posted May 1, 2011 Report Posted May 1, 2011 Get ready to spend some more $$$...there is a clutch assembly that engages the starter armature to the flywheel. I tried to start my '49 one day, the starter spun freely bu wasn't turning the engine over at all; turns out that starter clutch had sheared in half. I didn't know this, so pulled the starter & took it to Gene at the starter shop. He replaced that clutch for $50. I felt real stupid cuz I had the replacement part in my parts stash. Replacement involves pulling the starter, removing the pinion housing & yoke, sliding off the old clutch, installing the new clutch, and slapping it back together. It probably takes longer to remove the starter than it does to replace that clutch. I've found several on eBay over the years for about $20. Maybe your starter guy can sell ya one if'n ya show him the remnants of yours. Quote
ggdad1951 Posted May 1, 2011 Author Report Posted May 1, 2011 well here's hoping that isn't the case! The starter JUST got rebuilt in Jan! Altho that is much more palatable than a flywheel! Out to the garage I go for a bit! X-ing fingers! Quote
Dave72dt Posted May 1, 2011 Report Posted May 1, 2011 Everything is in the starter except for the ring gear and if it were that, turning the engine over a quarter of a turn by hand would have let the starter engage. You can cheat on the ring gear by removing it and giving it a quarter turn and reinstalling but a replacement would be better. You can get a pretty good idea of the tooth condition when the starter is out. Engines tend to stop in two places, opposite each other so engagement wear is located in those two spots. An engine that doesn''t run can stop anywhere so the ring gear is likely OK. All the other issues I mentioned have to do with the starter drive itself so you're really only looking in two places and I don't know what your drive looks like so I offered possibilities for known types of drives. Quote
Don Coatney Posted May 1, 2011 Report Posted May 1, 2011 You can cheat on the ring gear by removing it and giving it a quarter turn and reinstalling . I do not understand how turning the ring gear 1/4 turn would change the starter engagement. I have heard of removing the ring gear and flipping it over assuming that this has not been done at some prior point in time. Quote
ggdad1951 Posted May 1, 2011 Author Report Posted May 1, 2011 Everything is in the starter except for the ring gear and if it were that, turning the engine over a quarter of a turn by hand would have let the starter engage.You can cheat on the ring gear by removing it and giving it a quarter turn and reinstalling but a replacement would be better. You can get a pretty good idea of the tooth condition when the starter is out. Engines tend to stop in two places, opposite each other so engagement wear is located in those two spots. An engine that doesn''t run can stop anywhere so the ring gear is likely OK. All the other issues I mentioned have to do with the starter drive itself so you're really only looking in two places and I don't know what your drive looks like so I offered possibilities for known types of drives. ok, I pulled the starter, by looking at the flywheel I can tell it isn't the problem. Now the starter on the other hand....no idea if that is right or not, the gear doesn't spin freely, so no sheared pins, and pushing the switch it wants to move forward but stops after little travel... Quote
Dave72dt Posted May 1, 2011 Report Posted May 1, 2011 It works because of the tendency of the engine to stop in just two places which are 180 degrees apart. All the grinding of the teeth occur during initial starter drive engagement. Once the teeth of the drive are fully engaged, little wear occurs. By moving the ring gear a quarter turn on the flywheel, the engagement locations have been changed to a non-worn section of teeth, just like it would be for a flipped or new ring gear. Flywheel momentum will carry the drive through the worn spot. Not all ring gears can be flipped. Some have a lead in chamfer on the teeth to help with smooth engagement of the drive or have a chamfer on the inner diameter of one side ofthe ring gear for flush mounting to the flywheel step and none on the other side. Quote
Dave72dt Posted May 2, 2011 Report Posted May 2, 2011 I got to thinking more on it last night and one more possibilty crossed my mind. You did push on the lever to activate it and not just the button didn't you? Quote
ggdad1951 Posted May 2, 2011 Author Report Posted May 2, 2011 Oh, I pushed the lever all right, just dropped it back at the starter shop and they said jomething is jacked up....will know what after they dissassemble it and check. Quote
52b3b Joe Posted May 3, 2011 Report Posted May 3, 2011 I hate when stuff like that happens....you get so excited to finally get somewhere and you start to go backwards in progress! Its just part of the adventure and fun of restoration though. Give us a video when you first start it though! Quote
ggdad1951 Posted May 4, 2011 Author Report Posted May 4, 2011 just go tback from the starter guy...the dang thing got bent somehow! Knock on wood that was a fluke and not a indicator of a more serious engine issue! Quote
Don Coatney Posted May 10, 2011 Report Posted May 10, 2011 just go tback from the starter guy...the dang thing got bent somehow! Knock on wood that was a fluke and not a indicator of a more serious engine issue! What actually got bent? Is the problem now corrected? Quote
ggdad1951 Posted May 10, 2011 Author Report Posted May 10, 2011 What actually got bent? Is the problem now corrected? no idea, all I did was try to turn the motor over, he had replaced it so maybe a bad part? Seems the replaced, replaced part is working well now. Quote
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