Ready to shoot my ignition! HELP...please

[Powerhouse]

After having hard starting and a puny to no spark, I have replaced the entire dizzy, coil, condenser, wires(all).

TEST OF COIL OHMS-

SHould be-

Primary: + to - = 1.5

Secondary: + or - to the high voltage connection(large port) = 8 to 11K ohms

BRAND NEW-

Primary: + to - = 1.5

Secondary: + or - to the high voltage connection(large port) = 9.1 k ohms

My NOS 2 years used -

Primary: + to - = 1.1

Secondary: + or - to the high voltage connection(large port) = 4.9 k ohms

I finally got good spark by putting in a new coil and reverting back to the single points dizzy I had. Car started ran and drove like a champ for a half hour, and then wouldn't start again. It would hardly crank, Sounded like the battery was nearly dead. It showed and almost full 6 volts on my meters. I charged it anyway...read as almost full.

What would make that happen? Can the car run on the battery without it being charged through the charging system. Wouldn't it just die from no battery for a spark? That has always confused me...I HATE electrics!

How does one test the generator? How does one test the VR? The VR is NOS and only has been in the car for about a month or so.

ANY ideas what the heck is going on? I am at wits end with this crap.

Edited August 19, 2010 by Powerhouse

[Tom Skinner]

Powerhouse,

I know any advice now might serve to rile you, however,

If the Generator is the problem, perhaps removing it and having it bench tested would help.

Just a thought, I am not an Electrical wiz Kid.

Good Luck.

Try Static Timing her, maybe she's to advanced??

Tom

[Plymouthy Adams]

if the battery will turn the starter/engine..then it has enough spark to run without charging (once running)..however..just because you can turn the starter does not mean you have enough reserve to fire the ignition..you failed to mention that after the 1/2 hour or so of running IF you had spark while trying to start..IF your starter circuit has any excessive current drain that could be due to a voltage drop in bad cable/connections or a dragging starter due to enlongated rear bushing..you could be starving the ignition of the current needed to saturate the coil..

IF you have a good battery charger capable of say 4 amps continous output..diconnect the wire from the battery to the coil, replace it with the battery charger..if you can now start rapidly..that will confirm the fact you are drawing too much current when starting..having a shunt and meter capable of reading the current drain of the starter would be good....without that you are basically guessing..but substituting the battery charger on the coil may get you pointed in the right direction...

also be sure you are NOT running a coil with an internal resistor...when warm the primary resistant goes higher, effectively cutting your voltage in half..(remember internal thermal resistors know heat, not voltage and will drop the voltage)

[Don Coatney]

Sure wish you would have continued posting on your original thread until the problem is resolved. Now there are several threads running with the same issues. Gets confusing after a while.

As I mentioned in another thread check your ignition timing. I believe the book calls for the timing to be set at TDC. If it is too far advanced it can cause slow cranking espically with a hot engine. If that is not the case then follow the advice Tim Adams gave and check all of your battery connections. Report the results after you try these things.

[Powerhouse]

it didn't have spark (at the points with ign on) after the half hour of driving. I changed the distributor(just for fun). It started up but slowly. Then I turned it off. Tried to turn on again...nope. By then the battery seemed as if it had no more power to turn starter.

Edited August 19, 2010 by Powerhouse

[Powerhouse]

Sure wish you would have continued posting on your original thread until the problem is resolved. Now there are several threads running with the same issues. Gets confusing after a while.

As I mentioned in another thread check your ignition timing. I believe the book calls for the timing to be set at TDC. If it is too far advanced it can cause slow cranking espically with a hot engine. If that is not the case then follow the advice Tim Adams gave and check all of your battery connections. Report the results after you try these things.

Timing is only at 3 past TDC. I will try and check the other stuff later.

[Powerhouse]

Hey Tim,

What do you mean by dragging starter due to enlongated rear bushing?

The coil is from NAPA... ECH IC7 ....it's the only 6V coil they have. It says on the coil...no external resistor needed. Why would a 6volt coil need a resistor...that would be pointless, right? I thought only 12V coil needed the resistor to take the voltage down so it doesn't burn the points?

Edited August 19, 2010 by Powerhouse

[JIPJOBXX]

Cheek out your main ground strap! I had problems for years and finally someone here notice that I had 12 volt cables for ground. I changed out to a ground strap and no more starting problems!!!!!!Yahooooo

[Powerhouse]

I have new 6 volt cables form BURNbaum

[Plymouthy Adams]

yes..the 12 needs the resistor..the comment I made is some folks grab a 12 volt coil with internal resistor and not know that, and add to that the external resistor.. guess what...double the drop..and yes I have seen this...

the second part..voltage drops due to internal corroded cable, poor connections and even worse is the enlongated rear bush in the starter..all lead to excessive current drain and it is thermal and goes into runaway quickly..drop/drag increases current drain, excessive current drains yet feeds more current drain and in the case of a very worn bushing, the average battery can be zapped in just a few attempts to start..

in the absence of proper tools/meter to read the current drain one is only guessing or flat out overlooks the very possibility this is a problem..the starter though turning, slow and getting slower, is a classic indicator...the use of a secondary power source for the ignition will provide current to the ignition and not be affected by the starter circuits' current robbing ability..so if good start..good indcator a starter circuit may be a problem..

it is good to know how all the components in a system functions and the path/flow of power when troubleshooting a circuit but it also benficial to know the effect of other items that interact as they can mask the real problem..proper tools and a quick check can keep you from chasing a rabbit..oft times it is easier to determine and firmly answer what is right in order to find what is wrong..

Edited August 19, 2010 by Tim Adams

[james49ply]

the coil wire comes from the horn relay (why??) run a jumper from the battery to the coil and see if it runs then if so then check all connection for loosness / corrosion. also get starter checked, sounds like it is dragging causing HIGH amp draw.

[Plymouthy Adams]

jumpering the voltage from the same power supply will not help if indeed the amperage rating of the battery is maxed out by the starter circuit..use a second power suppy..

[Greenbomb]

Do you know for sure the battery is good? Have you done a load test on it? It might crank enough when cold and then when warm just doesn't have enough oomph. That can give ya fits!

[Powerhouse]

after checking some more stuff...I figured it must be not charging somehow. The ammeter on the gauge cluster didn't show anything but discharge. I got it running again...and it started sputtering and nearly stalling. It even looked like there was water shooting out the tailpipe. That scared me. Shut it off...no spark again...and slow cranking.

I squeezed into the fun position to gain access to the back of the gauge cluster...which was so good for my back, and decided to push on some wiring to see if anything was loose at all. Nothing seemed loose. I then pushed a bit harder on the battery to ammeter connection. It budged, and a light coating of dust fell nearly in my eye. I took that nut and wire off. It was the rustiest nut behind the dash. It must have been reused or something when the wiring harness was put in years ago. I replaced the nut and added a lock washer. Also cleaned the wire. Put it back on...and WOW! It charged like never before! After all that...it was a slightly loose rusty connection. I'm hoping that's all anyway. So far so GOOOOD! Shut it down and restartred sevral times. I couldn't release the starter quick enough....finally!

If this had been a 12 volt system...I bet the corroded nut wouldn't have been a problem. I wonder how many bad connections seem fine in a 12 volt system. 6 volt system work great, when they work.

Edited August 20, 2010 by Powerhouse

[Plymouthy Adams]

high resisitance connection..voltage drops..killer everytime...glad it was that simple for you..maybe this is enough to get folks out there in P15 land to periodically check these all so important power distribution connections to be clean and tight...

[greg g]

Glad you found your problem. Some moisture from the tail pipe is normal, especially after several periods of short and or poor running periods. It is just condensation which forms when the warm exhaust system pull cool wet air into the tail pipe after you shut it down. Air will always travel to heat. If its humid it will carry moisture with it and it will puddle in the pipes andor muffler. When you restart it will get blown out and carry carbon with it.

That is why it is good to take some long runs on a regular basis to dry out you system completely. Plus in humid conditiond, water gets squeezed out of the air during the compression stroke.

[Reg Evans]

high resisitance connection..voltage drops..killer everytime...glad it was that simple for you..maybe this is enough to get folks out there in P15 land to periodically check these all so important power distribution connections to be clean and tight...

Yeah,but what about us D guys Tim ?

Signed GrandpaDodge

[Plymouthy Adams]

we all know tha the "D" cars is just a tad better built than the Plymouth..(I'll pay for this comment..lol)

[Reg Evans]

we all know tha the "D" cars is just a tad better built than the Plymouth..(I'll pay for this comment..lol)

Don't fret none Tim. I'll split the costs with you.

[Powerhouse]

Gee...I heard the Chrysler and Desoto cars clean themselves!

[jd52cranbrook]

Timing is only at 3 past TDC. I will try and check the other stuff later.

Past TDC? I think you have it backwards. I am pretty sure that would make the engine turn slow. Unless I am mixed up, which can most definitely be, but I would turn your distributor and try again.

Edited August 20, 2010 by jd52cranbrook

[Reg Evans]

Gee...I heard the Chrysler and Desoto cars clean themselves!

Well yes but......You forgot DODGE !!!!

[Powerhouse]

Past TDC? I think you have it backwards. I am pretty sure that would make the engine turn slow. Unless I am mixed up, which can most definitely be, but I would turn your distributor and try again.

The term always confuses me. It's to the side of the TDC line that is closer to the distributor/driver side. The side that speeds the engine rpm.

[greg g]

Timing is advanced to fire the spark plug Before Top Dead Center, retarding timing fires the plug After Top Dead Center

[suntennis]

If the timing is advanced, the engine will idle a bit faster. As you retard the timing, then the idle speed decreases. To advance, the distributor is rotated counter clockwise. It does not take much movement to make a difference.