Engine Block Flush

[Big_John]

I drained, filled, drained my radiator today on my '53 Chrysler. The water in the rad seemed clean and drained well. I opened the petcock on the left side of the block and no water came out. I removed the petcock, thinking it might be clogged with scale and discovered a lot of mud in the block.

I removed the thermostat, lower rad hose and stuck the garden hose in the upper hose. I expected some water to pour out the open block hole, but there was only a little. Hooked the lower hose back up, and again stuck the garden hose in the upper hose. A little more water out of the block, but not a lot.

Any suggestions? I'd rather not start knocking out freeze plugs if at all possible.

[Plymouthy Adams]

none that will not require you to do some preventative maintenance...

[Don Coatney]

I have heard of others using dish washer detergent as an assist in cleaning the block. Add the soap and go for a 25 mile drive. Return home and flush.

I have not tried this myself but I will next time I flush the cooling system.

[55 Fargo]

I drained, filled, drained my radiator today on my '53 Chrysler. The water in the rad seemed clean and drained well. I opened the petcock on the left side of the block and no water came out. I removed the petcock, thinking it might be clogged with scale and discovered a lot of mud in the block.

I removed the thermostat, lower rad hose and stuck the garden hose in the upper hose. I expected some water to pour out the open block hole, but there was only a little. Hooked the lower hose back up, and again stuck the garden hose in the upper hose. A little more water out of the block, but not a lot.

Any suggestions? I'd rather not start knocking out freeze plugs if at all possible.

Here is the plan of attack, this works well for cleaning out your engine block cooling jackets.

-pull water pump, t/stat and housing and remove water distribution tube, replace if necessary, there will be a lot of crud blocking the rear passage holes.

-remove side frost plugs, remove petcock valve.

-thoroughly flush out block, from all openings, rod out crud through frost plug holes.

-once the engine is good and flushed out, re-install water pump. freeze plugs,water dist tube, t/stat and housing hoses etc.

-make sure rad has good flow and is clean.

Use rain water or distilled water fill system, add 1/2 cup of electrosol, start engine check for leaks before addding dish washer detergent.

-if all is not leaking add electrosol, run engine, gofor a 25 mile ride, get the engine up to operating temp, 170-180 degrees.

- drain engine coolong system, add freshy water no deteregent run again until warm, then drain again, repeat if necessary, then if all is well, fill cooling sytem with 50/50 water and anti-freeze.

At this point all should be fairly clean, with good flow, and passages that aren't full of crud.

I have done this very thing, worked well, lot of work, but can be done in a few days.........Fred

[Big_John]

none that will not require you to do some preventative maintenance...

Not quite getting your inference here Tim.

This is a car I just bought that wasn't running. The previous owner had given up trying and sold the car to me. I've gotten it running and now in the process of sorting things out so it will run well and reliably.

I have heard of others using dish washer detergent as an assist in cleaning the block. Add the soap and go for a 25 mile drive. Return home and flush.

I have not tried this myself but I will next time I flush the cooling system.

I may try this first. If nothing else, it may loosen things up. It couldn't hurt.

Here is the plan of attack, this works well for cleaning out your engine block cooling jackets.

-pull water pump, t/stat and housing and remove water distribution tube, replace if necessary, there will be a lot of crud blocking the rear passage holes.

-remove side frost plugs, remove petcock valve.

-thoroughly flush out block, from all openings, rod out crud through frost plug holes.

-once the engine is good and flushed out, re-install water pump. freeze plugs,water dist tube, t/stat and housing hoses etc.

-make sure rad has good flow and is clean.

Use rain water or distilled water fill system, add 1/2 cup of electrosol, start engine check for leaks before addding dish washer detergent.

-if all is not leaking add electrosol, run engine, gofor a 25 mile ride, get the engine up to operating temp, 170-180 degrees.

- drain engine coolong system, add freshy water no deteregent run again until warm, then drain again, repeat if necessary, then if all is well, fill cooling sytem with 50/50 water and anti-freeze.

At this point all should be fairly clean, with good flow, and passages that aren't full of crud.

I have done this very thing, worked well, lot of work, but can be done in a few days.........Fred

This sounds like what I will end up doing. I was really hoping there was a magic bullet fix that all you flathead guys had come up with, but it sounds like this is the real fix. As I said above, I may try running the engine with detergent first and if nothing else, it should loosen the crud up a little. Am I correct in saying there is no aluminum pieces in the cooling system that the Electrosol can react with?

Thanks!

Sounds typical for these engines. All the crud ends up low in the water jacket in the block.

You can run a wire in that drain hole, but that is not the answer. You will only make a small passage for water to come out.

Freeze plug removal and some good poking around and a lot of flushing from both the top and bottom is what is needed.

If you are on the road and not overheating you may be able to hold off till they start salting the roads:)

They start salting the roads here in July.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I believe your line was without pulling freeze plugs..after all these years of buildup there is little chance of getting it cleaned out otherwise..pulling the freeze plugs and other suggestions made here is the correct and best approach to ensure the sludge is removed and give you somewhat peace of mind...My inference is, you will have to exert a bit of hands on or at minimum pay one to do it for you...very few magic bullets..and if you think flushing the block with an acid/chemical strong enough to do the work needed I assure you, you will be pulling the freeze plugs after they start leaking....am certain if any metal is left behind them it is paper thin and or not leaking due to the sludge already compacted..the silt and rust is so fine and compacted after all these years if you had a bit of pressure to add..you would be forming rocks..

[TodFitch]

If you manage to loosen up the crud with dish washing machine detergent I'd guess that some of it would lodge in the very hard to clean radiator.

Just go ahead and pull the core plugs. It isn't all that hard to do and will really allow you to get in and remove a lot of accumulated gunk.

Pulling the water pump to remove and clean/replace the water distribution tube can be a big chore, so I'd wait on that. But the core/freeze/welch plugs are not all that bad to remove/replace.

[Jim Saraceno]

If your car is not running hot, you may just want to give it a flush, move on to more important things and do the freeze plug thing at a later date.

If it is running hot, then you'll want to do it sooner.

[Big_John]

I believe your line was without pulling freeze plugs..after all these years of buildup there is little chance of getting it cleaned out otherwise..pulling the freeze plugs and other suggestions made here is the correct and best approach to ensure the sludge is removed and give you somewhat peace of mind...My inference is, you will have to exert a bit of hands on or at minimum pay one to do it for you...very few magic bullets..and if you think flushing the block with an acid/chemical strong enough to do the work needed I assure you, you will be pulling the freeze plugs after they start leaking....am certain if any metal is left behind them it is paper thin and or not leaking due to the sludge already compacted..the silt and rust is so fine and compacted after all these years if you had a bit of pressure to add..you would be forming rocks..

Well, OK. It would have been nice to say that to begin with.

As I said I would prefer not to pull the freeze plugs, not that I wouldn't if necessary. Acids or strong chemicals.... no way. I agree that will cause more damage especially in this case where the flow may be suppressed by the crud.

[Big_John]

A recent thread shows the use of a electric hammer to install some freeze plugs.

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=22121&highlight=freeze+plug

Also you never know what you might find in there.

Yea, I'd use the air hammer to install them. One thing I note in reading is that most seem to be staying away from the harder to get at freeze plugs.

That piece looks like the riser from when they sand cast the block. They just knock those off and I wouldn't be suprised if one ended up in the block.

[Plymouthy Adams]

Big John..as you suggested in your first post that this was the known method to you I gave you credit for the knowing the inner workings of the system and such, I basically was agreeing with your pwn statement that there is not a quick and easy fix..

I do not use chemical to flush the system..reason is that neutralizing the stuff after the fact is not always successful...while it is not an inviting job and especially in this hot humid area I live in..I would not like knowing Ihad to do this job today..but as we all know most of the time the hardest part is getting started...

I agree with the earlier post that one could probably get by not pulling the distribution tube..but if you have any real doubt, get a hand help temp probe and bring the engine up to temp and check each cylinder for even temperature front to rear..go from there

[Powerhouse]

when refilling after a hot flush..do NOT use cold water right out of the hose...IT MAY CRACK THE BLOCK. I've heard of it happening.

[Big_John]

Big John..as you suggested in your first post that this was the known method to you I gave you credit for the knowing the inner workings of the system and such, I basically was agreeing with your pwn statement that there is not a quick and easy fix..

I do not use chemical to flush the system..reason is that neutralizing the stuff after the fact is not always successful...while it is not an inviting job and especially in this hot humid area I live in..I would not like knowing Ihad to do this job today..but as we all know most of the time the hardest part is getting started...

I agree with the earlier post that one could probably get by not pulling the distribution tube..but if you have any real doubt, get a hand help temp probe and bring the engine up to temp and check each cylinder for even temperature front to rear..go from there

A quick and easy fix would be nice and perhaps I was being naive in hoping for one, but then again... you do never know what others have done. I've been fooling with cars for about 40 years now and I get suprised now and again by simple solutions to what looked like complicated problems.

I'm thinking this engine is a little worse for wear then I had hoped it would be and I'm going to end up pulling it this winter and either going through it or better yet, finding the proper 265 engine the car should have and rebuilding that. Mud in the cooling passages will be pretty easy to deal with then.

That said, it looks like the short term solution is to pull the easy to get at freeze plugs and cleaning out what I can that way. I'm going to leave the water pump, distribution tube etc in place for now and worry about that later if I need to.

[Robert Horne]

On the 49 Dodge I bought recently, I put in new rain water and run the engine at operating temp for a few minutes, and after cooling off, loosen the lower radiator hose to drain. I do this each week-end. I am doing the brake system, some body work, etc., so the Dodge will not be on the road for awhile, so a good time to keep flushing the coolant...........

[Don Coatney]

, finding the proper 265 engine the car should have

The elusive 265 CI engine was not installed in Crashlers until 53,54. And it was a Chrashler only thing with the exception of industrial and farm impliment applications. The Spitfire head was also only available on Crashlers. There is nothing special (no gain in horsepower) about the Spitfire head other than the logo.

[JoelOkie]

The elusive 265 CI engine was not installed in Crashlers until 53,54. And it was a Chrashler only thing with the exception of industrial and farm impliment applications. The Spitfire head was also only available on Crashlers. There is nothing special (no gain in horsepower) about the Spitfire head other than the logo.

Then there is also the somewhat lessor known Spitsfire, correct?

[Reg Evans]

Then there is also the somewhat lessor known Spitsfire, correct?

Yes,so far only one has been found.

[Reg Evans]

Here's what I found when I removed my freeze plugs because the block drain was clogged.

[Young Ed]

I have one that looked like that too. The other thing to consider is if your engine has steel plugs with all that gunk behind them they are probably rotten. The ones in mine were.

[Big_John]

The elusive 265 CI engine was not installed in Crashlers until 53,54. And it was a Chrashler only thing with the exception of industrial and farm impliment applications. The Spitfire head was also only available on Crashlers. There is nothing special (no gain in horsepower) about the Spitfire head other than the logo.

The engine in the car now is a 1950 with the Spitfire logo on the head. The ID number on the block is for a Chrysler. The car is a 1953 Windsor.

But that brings up a question. If the stroke is the only difference, can the 265 rotating assembly be used in a 251 block? I'm assuming rod length is different because of the stroke.

I'm not saying that is the way I'm going to go... just more to satisfy my curiosity.

And I would say that the Spitfire head logo does make the car go faster...

[55 Fargo]

The engine in the car now is a 1950 with the Spitfire logo on the head. The ID number on the block is for a Chrysler. The car is a 1953 Windsor.

But that brings up a question. If the stroke is the only difference, can the 265 rotating assembly be used in a 251 block? I'm assuming rod length is different because of the stroke.

I'm not saying that is the way I'm going to go... just more to satisfy my curiosity.

And I would say that the Spitfire head logo does make the car go faster...

Yes the 265 rotating assembly will install into your block.

The difference is a 1/4 inch of stroke between the 2 engines, with the 251 has a 4.5 stroke, while the 265 engine has a 4.75 inch stroke.

On the industrial engines, there may be some other differences, in valve size,sodium filled valves etc.........Fred

Some old timers say the 251 was a better engine with less issues, not sure why, unless it was related to the longer stroke, or maybe heavy duty usage..Fred

Edited June 28, 2010 by Rockwood

[Don Coatney]

Yes you can make a 251 a 265 by swapping out the crankshaft and rods.

You should give George Asche a call. He is the real deal when it comes to building long block Mopars. He does not do puters but can be reached by an old fashioned phone call. His number is in the links section of the main webpage supporting this forum. Tell him hi for me.

Follow this link for pictures.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v65/DonCoatney/George%20Asche/

[Big_John]

Just to follow up on this...

I've got some oil pressure issues. I've only run the engine a couple minutes since sorting out ignition and fuel problems and I verified the problem with a good oil pressure gage. It just starting to make more sense to pull the engine and do it right.

[BeBop138]

The elusive 265 CI engine was not installed in Crashlers until 53,54. And it was a Chrashler only thing with the exception of industrial and farm impliment applications. The Spitfire head was also only available on Crashlers. There is nothing special (no gain in horsepower) about the Spitfire head other than the logo.

They made them in 52 also:D