bypass to full flow conversion?

[41/53dodges]

is there any good way to convert a stock 218 with a bypass system to a full flow system with a screw on filter? i know that filter kits can be bought, its just not worth it wih a bypass system.

[Merle Coggins]

Can it be done? Yes.

Is it an easy conversion? No

I recall some time back this was discussed. I believe it was Mr. Erb (greybeard) who knows of someone who did this conversion on their 218 or 230 short block engine. It basically comes down to drilling into the oil passage next to the oil pump with 2 ports and putting a plug into the original bore between the new ports. Now you can plumb hoses from the discharge of the oil pump through a full flow filter and return it back into the regular oil galley beyond the plugged bore.

In my mind it's not worth the trouble. Keep a good working bypass filter on your engine and maintain it regularly and you won't have any problems.

Merle

[41/53dodges]

problem is my filter is gone. i have the filter, but it needs severe cleaning and plumbing. in my mind, its not worth it for a bypass system as there is nothing actually keeping the crap from the oil passages. i would just change the oil when it turns runny and black, just like the lawnmower. these are basically just lawnmower engines from hell, right?

[Don Coatney]

A by-pass filter is a good thing. It does filter all the oil. It just does not filter all the oil all the time as a full flow filter does. Not too difficult to clean with the filter housing removed from the engine. Simply soak it in solvent or use gasolene to clean it.

[HanksB3B]

I'm not sure I understand what is meant by a by-pass oil filter.

1. What type of filter is my stock one shown in the attached image?

2. What types of filter setups are available for our L6 trucks/cars?

3. My Amsoil Distributor tells me there is a filter capable of filtering

down to 1 micron of contaminent and that I'd never have to change

my oil ever.

Thanks,

Hank

[41/53dodges]

it does not matter how clean the oil is, if it is run for too long on that oil, acids build up in the oils and coke forms on the non-moving internal surfaces. a filter is to just prolong the whole process. a bypass filter is the type where about 80 percent of the oil goes straight to the bearings, while the other 20 goes through the filter and back into the crankcase. with a full flow, all the oil goes through the filter and then the bearings. BTW, my filter set up needs a little more help than it would seem...

[Merle Coggins]

A filter of any kind will NEVER keep the oil from breaking down over time. It will only remove certain contaminates from the oil. There is nothing wrong with a by-pass filter system. Even though it doesn't filter all of the oil all of the time, it does filter some of the oil better. By-pass filters have a finer micron rating so that they will remove smaller particles from the oil. This will keep your oil cleaner overall. Unless you have dirt in your oil pan that your pump picks up and pumps through your bearings you're not going to have any bearing failures because you don't have a full flow filtering system.

My truck didn't even have a filter when I got it. I found one on ebay for a reasonable price. When I got it, it had the wrong filter element in it and it was full of sludge, which looked like grease. I cleaned it up, installed the proper filter element, and plumbed it up on my engine. It works just fine.

Merle

[Don Coatney]

My truck didn't even have a filter when I got it. I found one on ebay for a reasonable price. When I got it, it had the wrong filter element in it and it was full of sludge, which looked like grease. I cleaned it up, installed the proper filter element, and plumbed it up on my engine. It works just fine.

Merle

Sounds like the filter I bought on the bay:eek: I can still smell it.

[HanksB3B]

it does not matter how clean the oil is, if it is run for too long on that oil, acids build up in the oils and coke forms on the non-moving internal surfaces. a filter is to just prolong the whole process. a bypass filter is the type where about 80 percent of the oil goes straight to the bearings, while the other 20 goes through the filter and back into the crankcase. with a full flow, all the oil goes through the filter and then the bearings. BTW, my filter set up needs a little more help than it would seem...

1. A Full Flow Filter ?

2. A Bypass Filter ?

Hank

[Don Coatney]

1. A Full Flow Filter ?

2. A Bypass Filter ?

Hank

Many engines came without a filter from the factory. On the short block engines (Plymouth, Dodge) there are no factory provisions for a full flow filter. Full flow filters were available on some of the long block engines (Desoto, Crashler, large Dodge trucks) but not all. Many by-pass filters were dealer installed and that is why there are so many variations out there as aftermarket vendors sold them to the dealers.

[HanksB3B]

So the pic in post #5 is....?

Please tell me I'm correct: A full flow filter.

Thanks,

Hank

[Young Ed]

Nope bypass

[HanksB3B]

O.K. finally...geeze..So if Amsoil says that you never have to change the oil..it would also have be a by-pass filter, So there's no reason to even go there since thats what we have.

I'm using the sock and found with a little rolling, crushing and coaxing, I can get the 51011 in the brown box from Kragen/OReilly to work (has the mfg corrected this oversize problem?) Micron-wise what are these filters capable of filtering and what if any is a better filter element?

41/53 Dodges gave a good reason (acids and coke buildup) why you absolutely do not want to keep oil past it's limit.

Some people have said they never change their oil, just keep adding oil. This seems like not a good idea. .

In any vehicle I've ever owned changing the oil always is noticible. I do like the idea of a magnetic drain plug but never seem to be able to find one. The large speaker magnet in the oil pan is also interesting.

Thanks,

Hank

[Don Coatney]

First picture is a by-pass filter. Second picture is a full flow filter.

[HanksB3B]

Obviously you think a Full Flow Oil Filter is the way to go. I'm o.k. with the by-bass and will look into the 85080 as either a alternate or go-with. I am interested in what the filtration difference are between the sock and cannister type.

I'm not settled on what oil to use. I ran the first 500 miles with a non-synthetic 10w 30. but am now using Valvoline Full Synthetic. Have heard great things about Amsoil that has a zinc additive, but of course that was from an Amsoil Dealer. My mind is not made up, but they do seem to have quality products for not much more than what I buy at Wal-Mart.

Hank

[Don Coatney]

Obviously you think a Full Flow Oil Filter is the way to go. I'm o.k. with the by-bass and will look into the 85080 as either a alternate or go-with. I am interested in what the filtration difference are between the sock and cannister type.

I'm not settled on what oil to use. I ran the first 500 miles with a non-synthetic 10w 30. but am now using Valvoline Full Synthetic. Have heard great things about Amsoil that has a zinc additive, but of course that was from an Amsoil Dealer. My mind is not made up, but they do seem to have quality products for not much more than what I buy at Wal-Mart.

Hank

I use a full flow filter because the Desoto engine I have installed in my car had provisions for it. A by-pass filter works well too. Bet your Amsol dealer recommends adding a by-pass filter as a second filter on your new car.

I use house grade (read cheep) 10-W-40 oil in my engine. Synthetic oil is good but my engine leaks more oil than it burns and as synthetic oil is thinner than dinsaur oil it would leak more.

[greg g]

OK lets do some real thinking about oil, oil changes, and filters, and factor in miles ad road conditions, and engine condition.

First Oil is better much better than it was 10 years not to mention 60

The lead has been removed from the gas we burn, the major ingredient in the pudding shown in Don C's picture was probably lead.

There are no more dirt roads where most of us live and even if there were we probably wouldn't drive on them with out old cars.

There are fewer coal burning powerplants, fewer coal powered factorys and a lot less coal burning steam engines spewing sharp carbon particulate matter into the air, and a lot less black carbon particulate exhaust from diesle powered trucks, busses, and trains

New oils have a detergent segment

We only drive our cars 1000 to 5000 miles a year in good weather.

So cleaner fuel, less contaimnents, better oil, suposedley better filter elements, and so on. Whats the big deal. Chage your oil and filter once a year and stop worring about it.

Do you put this much thought into the car you drive every day??? probably not.

Bypass system filters 30 percent of the oil as it passes through the system or 52.8 ounces, based on 5.5 quart capacity. How long does it take??? who knows does aybody have the flow rate of the oil pump??? We could figure out how long it would take for the system to pump all the oil through the bypass.

The full flow flows all the oil through a more porous element, so is there any real benifit?

You can perhaps adapt the older system to a new remotely mounted spin on filter and do the internal plug to make it a full flow.

But why????

Drive your car or truck, keep the fluids to their specified level, and change the oil as you feel its necessary. Is Black oil really bad or is it doing its job of suspeding impurities?

Our biggest culprit is likely condensation inside the crank case from short trips and lack of use.

Don't mean to offend any body, but whan as the last time you changed the oil in you unfiltered lawn mower? It probably gets more work, works in a dirtier envionment with less regard to its lubricants.

Now if your trying to drive an old engine, with out a rebuild without knowing what the insides look like, using a detergent oil, then changing the filter and oil more often is probably a good idea.

[JBNeal]

This sorta thing has come up at work when dealing with our European counterparts who want us to use very expensive Italian or German hydraulic control valves on equipment we build for them. These valves are more susceptible to failure from fluid contamination than the American valves we use for domestic production. With this known, we have a never ending analysis as to which control valve to use for which application. The expensive valves have smoother and more accurate controls, but at a higher price. In some applications, this expense is unnecessary.

These flatheads were designed for high contamination use, not only in cars & trucks but as stationary engines for industrial use or heavy equipment power plants for agricultural use. My thinkin' is that we could have better lubrication with the house brand multi-weight oils of today than with the SAE 30 oils of 50 years ago. Full flow filtration may be better for the engine lubrication, but how much better might be negligible compared with the bypass filtration. Weighing the cost of modifying the flathead block for full flow filtration versus more frequent oil changes with the bypass filtration makes me think that the payoff would not be in my lifetime. DC's installation of the full flow filter makes sense because the modification requires simple hand tools since the flathead block was designed for this upgrade.

My question is about the bypass filter itself. I've been running the Wix 51010 canister similar to what DC has pictured instead of the sock-type (Wix 51011). That canister was in the '48 when I started working on it when I was 12, and a similar canister was in the '49. I haven't seen a cross-section of either type of filter, so I'm unsure of what the actual filtration difference is other than the particulate rating. Is the sock type better than the canister for any reason? My guess is that it completely fills the filter housing as the canister does not.

Edited June 9, 2010 by JBNeal
wrong part number

[John-T-53]

A PCV system will do a heck of a lot more for your old flathead than any alterations to the filtering system. As Mr. G mentioned, condensation induced by short trips is a big enemy of the crankcase. If you're going to do anything to improve your oil, above changing it and the filter element, install a PCV.

I haven't heard of the "coke" buildup before, but I'd guess this might be a more common issue in places like Columbia, etc :-{

[HanksB3B]

I know problems about the sock type WIX 51011 have been well documented in at least one previous thread as well as the PCV system. I believe the Carquest filter shown in Don's post #14 p/n 85080 is actually a reboxed WIX 51071 and described as a "Full Flow"

Since the stock WIX 51011 is described as a By-pass filter would the WIX 51071 full flow filter actually work ?

Does anyone know if WIX has actually taken some action in the manufacturing process. I am assuming the specs given in the attached 51011 spec sheet is what they are "SUPPOSED" to be and that the ones we are getting (that do not have a domed top) are just leftover stock and once exhausted they will start making the correct ones.

Thanks,

Hank

WIX 51011 Oil Filter.pdf

WIX 51071 Oil Filter.pdf

[Merle Coggins]

The sock type, such as Wix's 51011, is NOT interchangable with the can type, such as Wix's 51010, or 51071. Which type of element you use depends on which type of element your filter canister requires. In the case of my filter canister, it is made by the Deluxe Filter Company and specifys a "JC" element. (it's stamped right in the cover) The Deluxe JC element crosses to the Wix 51011, Napa 1011, Baldwin JC405, or Hastings LF501. These are all sock type filter elements. I checked their web sites and they don't give the micron rating for these filters. If you filter canister is designed for this type of element it WILL NOT work correctly with a different type of element. It's all in how it seals inside the canister and how the oil flows through it. Different filter manufacturers make their canisters for different filter elements. BE SURE you are using the correct one.

As for oil, I change mine every spring whether it needs it or not. Since I run Amsoil in practically everything I drive I am currently running Amsoil 10W-40 Synthetic Premium Protection Motor Oil (AMO) in my truck. It has zinc additive for flat tappet engines. I also switched to the Baldwin filter with this oil change. It was still a snug fit, but not nearly as bad as the last Napa 1011 filter I installed.

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION

AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motor Oil is specially formulated to provide superior protection and performance in a wide variety of demanding applications. By incorporating high-quality synthetic base stocks and a superior high-zinc additive package, AMSOIL Premium Protection Oil exceeds the needs of large and small gasoline or diesel engines in cars, motorcycles, trucks, motor homes, maintenance equipment, heavy equipment, street rods and marine applications. It is ideal for high-mileage vehicles, vehicles with flat-tappet cams and high-stress vehicles subject to hot temperatures, heavy hauling, trailer pulling or off-road use. AMSOIL Premium Protection Oil resists oxidation, neutralizes acids, inhibits corrosion, reduces wear and protects against deposits. It provides the extra anti-wear protection required by engines with flat-tappet cams and high-tension valve springs. AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Premium Protection Motor Oil offers flexibility and performance beyond conventional oil for convenience and trouble-free operation.

Edited June 9, 2010 by Merle Coggins

[John-T-53]

...snip... I believe the Carquest filter shown in Don's post #14 p/n 85080 is actually a reboxed WIX 51071 and described as a "Full Flow"

That looks like a NAPA 1080, which will work on most of the bypass filter housings we have. My housing looks like yours Hank, with the inlet on the bottom and outlet on top. The 1080 is pleated paper and doesn't filter down to the level that the sock 1011 filters do, but it's a lot easier to change, and cheaper to buy. The only thing you need to do when using this filter is install metal washers that fit tightly over the center tube, at each end of the filter element, to get a good seal and prevent the spring from tearing up the fiber on the bottom. You also need about a 1/2" spacer to hold the element down from the top.

Edited June 9, 2010 by John-T-53

[HanksB3B]

but didn't do all the tricks you are talking about.

Alternative solutions are good to know about.

Anyone purchased a sock-type that measured up to match what was shown in the pdf attachment.

Hank

[41/53dodges]

OK lets do some real thinking about oil, oil changes, and filters, and factor in miles ad road conditions, and engine condition.

First Oil is better much better than it was 10 years not to mention 60

The lead has been removed from the gas we burn, the major ingredient in the pudding shown in Don C's picture was probably lead.

There are no more dirt roads where most of us live and even if there were we probably wouldn't drive on them with out old cars.

There are fewer coal burning powerplants, fewer coal powered factorys and a lot less coal burning steam engines spewing sharp carbon particulate matter into the air, and a lot less black carbon particulate exhaust from diesle powered trucks, busses, and trains

New oils have a detergent segment

We only drive our cars 1000 to 5000 miles a year in good weather.

So cleaner fuel, less contaimnents, better oil, suposedley better filter elements, and so on. Whats the big deal. Chage your oil and filter once a year and stop worring about it.

Do you put this much thought into the car you drive every day??? probably not.

Bypass system filters 30 percent of the oil as it passes through the system or 52.8 ounces, based on 5.5 quart capacity. How long does it take??? who knows does aybody have the flow rate of the oil pump??? We could figure out how long it would take for the system to pump all the oil through the bypass.

The full flow flows all the oil through a more porous element, so is there any real benifit?

You can perhaps adapt the older system to a new remotely mounted spin on filter and do the internal plug to make it a full flow.

But why????

Drive your car or truck, keep the fluids to their specified level, and change the oil as you feel its necessary. Is Black oil really bad or is it doing its job of suspeding impurities?

Our biggest culprit is likely condensation inside the crank case from short trips and lack of use.

Don't mean to offend any body, but whan as the last time you changed the oil in you unfiltered lawn mower? It probably gets more work, works in a dirtier envionment with less regard to its lubricants.

Now if your trying to drive an old engine, with out a rebuild without knowing what the insides look like, using a detergent oil, then changing the filter and oil more often is probably a good idea.

sorry to burst your bubble, but black oil is a bad thing. remember the acids previously noted? the main reason i know about this is from doing work on an engine that was run with dirty oil for years. it causes deposits and coking that will slowly plug the orifices for lubrication, thus starving the engine of oil. water wont hurt anything if its just sitting on the bottom, but when it is on a surface with air, it will rot. if it is submerged under oil, then it will not get air, thus not harming anything.

[JBNeal]

Wellllll SHUCKS...thank goodness I don't drive either of my Pilot-Houses very much, cuz it looks like the Wix 51010 does nothing but sit in an oil bath for the bypass filter housings I have as the upper & lower IDs are the same. The 51011 appears to be what I need to have been using all these years...GOSH I reckon I've been spoiled by spin-on filters and never put much thought into how this flathead's filtration actually worked. This explains why the oil would be dirty within 100 miles after changing, no matter how I setup the carburetor. How'bout them apples...wellsir, this goes to the top of the list of engine upgrades to do: CORRECT oil filter, 180 thermostat, PCV system, paper air cleaner conversion.

Thank all y'all for contributing cuz this is something basic that I have overlooked for years and y'all's back'n'forth got me to thinkin'bout it...cain't wait to get started on this now, maybe after it stops raining cats & dogs 'round here.

Edited January 7, 2014 by JBNeal