Dan's Hemi swap project

[Dan Babb]

Time for an update.

The running rough issue turned out to be related to not all the cylinders firing. Jared ( forum member with a Pilothouse) came by and we tweaked the timing and found a vac leak somewhere in the power brake line/booster. Once we disconnected the power brake hose, it was a lot better.

I took it over to Rock's house ( another forum member building a P15 ), and messed around with it a bit more. Can't find any more vac leaks, but we think it needs some carb tuning to get it right.

So I took it out for Lunch on the way home and am going to consider it roadworthy for now.

Still have some things to mess with, but I think it's 90% done for now (are they really ever more complete than that?)

I might look into taking some leafs out of the suspension. Everything is lubed up and it's a lot better than when I first got it...but it still jumps if you hit a decent bump in the road.

How much of a difference does removing a leaf from the front and two from the rear make?

[greg g]

Just throw some stuff in the back. about 600 lbs worth. That will tell you haow it will ride wth a leaf or two removed. I am wondering the same thing in regard to my studebaker, but I think one of the PO, may have addressed it as the rear springs don't look like the set on the other frame I have. Looks like they may have swapped in some car springs, only 6 leaves per side. The other fram has about 9 or ten with every third one designed top be out of the loop till the others are pushed down onto it. Don't have any of these in the current set up.

Other than you idle stumble, how does it drive and go? Or are you babying it for a bit???

[TheMoose]

I'd be interested in hearing how this turns out, my 53 will never haul anything heavier than a prom queen so I thought about removing some springs too to improve ride quality.

[bach4660]

bin following you from the start, thanks for the update, 1) it looks great, 2) personally they are never done:D

[Dan Babb]

It definitely moves better than it did with the 218 in it. I havent stomped on it yet, but it feels a little weaker than i think it should. Carb tuning should help that.

Id like to find smeone who removed leaves to get some feedback before just taking some out. If i cant find a post here, i will start a new thread here and at the HAMB to see what info i can get.

Nce i get it tuned, i will get a video posted.

[48Dodger]

Removing leaves will help, but you might want to research your shocks as well. Changing your spring rate, means a change in shock damping response. This is why adjustable coil over shocks are so much fun...adjustable.

48D

[Dan Babb]

Just found a good reply in an old thread of mine from greybeard in here.

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=22560&highlight=Improving+ride

He describes how he removed leafs from the rear.

[48Dodger]

http://www.deanoshiro.com/suspension/leafspring.html

This what I was refering to Dan. When you get the Hemi running stronger, you'll want the supension to hook up too.

48D

[Dan Babb]

That's a pretty good read. I've thought about doing something like that on my 68 Camaro.

I can see how this would work out well on the truck too. Wonder what spring rates you'd want on the truck though.

How would you calculate the spring rate on the leafs if you took out all but two pieces on the front & rear? I think you'd need a decent idea on where you are with the leafs so you get close to the right coil springs.

[48Dodger]

Good place to start is to scale the truck. Four scales (locate a chassis builder)....one under each wheel. Check the front to back ratio, cross weight and locate the center of gravity (think of a teeter totter). All that will help predict the ride. At that point...drive it...feel it...change it. Write it all down, and then....tweek it.

48D

Great article on handling

http://rqriley.com/suspensn.htm

"Beam Axle

The beam axle is a familiar design but it is no longer considered appropriate for automobile application. It is strong and inexpensive, and as a result, it is ideally suited to heavy trucks and smaller utility vehicles. The advantages of the design include its simplicity, low cost, and rugged layout, as well as a naturally high roll center which reduces body roll in turns. The disadvantages have to do with its performance. A bump at one wheel is transferred across to the other wheel. In addition, the gyroscopic forces of both wheels work together to induce shimmy, and the design results in greater unsprung weight and a rough ride."

Article on basic suspension setups

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0604_rear_suspension_guide/index.html

"In a perfect world, all the roads would be perfectly flat, without bumps, and suspensions wouldn't even be needed. But as we all know, that is far from reality. Once you start talking about curves and performance then a properly functioning suspension becomes essential. One area of confusion lies in the numerous choices for your rear suspension. Terms like four-link, three-link, triangulated-four-link, Panhard, Watt's and such get tossed about and if you don't know what they mean, picking the right rear suspension can be difficult at best."

How racing uses suspension and some history behind it

http://www.circletrack.com/chassistech/ctrp_0607_stock_car_suspension_setup/index.html

"During the period between the late '40s and the early '90s, no one had completely developed a way to predict how a stock car would handle and therefore be able to adjust the suspension components to attain that perfectly balanced setup. We knew that if we could ultimately predict the distribution of weight on the tires when the car was executing the turn, we would know how the car would handle.

What has been refined in most top racing series over the years is the art of trial and error. Advanced measuring systems are in use today that not only record movements, pressures, and temperatures, but also the forces exerted on components"

Edited November 29, 2011 by 48dodger

[Dan Babb]

So much to figure out.

Plug & Play would be much nicer.

[48Dodger]

So much to figure out.

Plug & Play would be much nicer.

lol....you gave up that otion when you plugged in a motor the vehicle was never designed for...

48D

[Dan Babb]

It's just a tiny old V8.

[Dan Babb]

Well, i couldnt get the engine to run smoother with tuning, so with some help from Jared, I bit the bullet and tore the front off the truck, pulled the engine and brought it back to the engine builder.

He tore it apart the other day, and found that the damper wasn't right (I guess the rubber shifted) and also found one broken and one bent pushrod. Hard to get it running right with broken parts.

So new pushrods are in the mail and he'll get everything balanced and setup right. Then I can put it back together.

Right now, the garage is a mess and it looks like it did way earlier in the year. Should only take about 8-10 hours of work to get it back together, so hopefully that's a light I see at the end of the tunnel (and not a train).

Since i have the engine out of the way, I decided to take out the springs to recondition them and have a leaf removed from each one.

Taking stuff off that hasn't been apart for 60 years is a bitch. I have the front pass side off and the front bolt off the driver side....about 3 hours of work so far.

I hope the rears are easier to get out. Are there any tips on getting the front of the rear springs out?

[Dodgeb4ya]

How do you think the push rods got bent?

[Dan Babb]

I probably screwed up when i was adjusting them. The builder is going through everything to make sure i dont have any valves sticking.

[ggdad1951]

my rears I screwed a bolt into the threads after removing the grease zerk and did some pulling on that while a helper used a drift punch thru a hole in the frame to tap from the rear. If I remember right the bolts that clamp the pin in are the ones that will thread into the zerk hole.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Rear shackles on the 1 tons are different than the threaded type used on the 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks. 1 Tons use a smooth, easy to remove pin on the front and rear shackles of the rear end as you stated ggdad1951.

Not sure on the front spring shackles. I beleive they are threaded front and rear.

This threaded spring and shackle replacement has been talked about here in the past. A search will bring it up-hopefully!

Bob

Edited January 3, 2012 by Dodgeb4ya

[Dan Babb]

Here's what I've found so far.

Front springs are threaded on both attachment ends.

Passenger side - standard thread for both bushings.

Driver side - front is standard thread. Rear is reverse thread.

I'll get out there tonight and attack the remaining front piece and the rears.

On the passenger side, the rear shackle was pretty dry on the lower part and with the spring removed, it doesn't have much movement...so I'll wind up taking out the shackles too and cleaning them up.

[Dan Babb]

I finished up refreshing the suspension. Wound up needing to buy 2 new spring shackles (one broke and the other was too rough to reuse). I removed a leaf out of each spring to soften the ride a bit ( using the measurement provided by 1952gary in another post ).

I got the engine back a couple weeks ago, so tomorrow I'm going to put it back in. Plan is to then get everything rewired and running by next weekend.

My garage looks like it did about a year ago.

[bach4660]

My garage looks like it did about a year ago.

LOL I had to double check that I was at the end of the thread!!!!

[Dan Babb]

No kidding! I looked back and the truck looked like this in March of last year.

Jared (maverick) came by today and we got the engine back in. Other than the cap popping off that transmission plug and fluid pouring all over the floor, it was a trouble-free day.

[Dan Babb]

Took me a month, but i got the engine runnibg yesterday and its smooth now.

Should be back on the road next weekend. Just ot to get the front sheetmetal and hood on.

I painted the radiator with the eastwood radiator paint...wasnt digging the aluminum in the engine bay. Looks better now.

With the suspension refresh and sound deadening stuff on the floor, i expect it to ride and sound a lot better.

[buds truck]

good job!! and just in time for post winter cruising!!

[bach4660]

Hey is that an old scrap car, just beside the truck:rolleyes:

(kinda looks like a camaro)