Bypass vs. full flow

[garbagestate 44]

Hello folks,

I recently bought an Ind 32 which I guess is a 265 since I haven't gone out to measure the stroke. It is from the late 60's and was originally purchased as a spare by Orange county NY municipal when they bought a pair of Bombadier snow plows. It was never used and looks grime free throughout. It has sodium filled exhaust valves and I suspect,a gear driven cam. The pad for the oil canister tower is different from the lines found on my 47 251. I'd like to use the old bypass filtering system with the original canister as I probably won't be running up a lot of miles on this thing once it's on the road. I had intended to download a picture of a page out of a 1957 Chrysler industrial shop manual showing the changes in plumbing but I couldn't figure out how to attach the image off the hard drive.It kept prompting me for a url. Anyway, The gist is that I have to swap the oil pressure relief valve springs,remove a plug from the oil pump outlet passage,plug the full flow return line and replace a bypass plug which is threaded into the block. Does all of this make sense or am I missing anything?

Thanks, John

[55 Fargo]

I dunno John, full flow versus By-pass, I know what I would do. Is there anyway you could plumb in the by-pass, for show, and keep the full-flow down low or out of sight.........Fred

[garbagestate 44]

Fred,

Actually I'd toss the old cannister in the bin and keep the full flow version but I don't have the first idea where I could come up with a replacement compatable part. Do you know of any sources? John

[greg g]

You could plumb it to a spin with an remote mount adapter from the speed shop places. There is an internal part you would have to change to change it back to a bypas set up. It in the releif valve circuit. Don C has a diagram in his photo bucket album.

[TodFitch]

Is not the full flow better than the by-pass?

Different. Each has it advantages and disadvantages with regards to keeping oil clean. From what I've seen looking around people who really care have both on their engines.

That said, the standard paper element cartridge, number 1080 I think, doesn't really do the job on a bypass filter that it ought to, its a membrane type media with a fairly high micron rating. The heavy duty filter option that uses the 1011 "sock type" filter might begin to show what a bypass filter can do as it is a depth media filter.

[garbagestate 44]

I think what I don't understand is why I couldn't use the old canister tower with the full flow system by plumbing in new oil lines. Is the cannister going to leak all over if I did that? Is that canister only designed for passive, lower pressure operation?

[Tony WestOZ]

You can both systems if you want.

Both systems run on the same pressure.

If you want I can scrible on a pic and show you were the lines have to go.

[garbagestate 44]

Sure thing, I'd appreciate any diagram you could draw,Thanks

[Don Coatney]

Why do you want to eliminate the full flow filter?

[garbagestate 44]

I'll go with either one. After reading lots of posts on the subject I'm confused.Some people think that a remote is a good idea and others say that if the lines in and out lack sufficient diameter the system will be constricted.Some say that the only safe way to do it is with an adapter that attaches to the block right where the holes are. It would be nice to keep the original canister but like I said earlier, I'd toss it in a minute for a filter set up that was made for the motor. I know of a long established forklift shop not far away that has a lot of industrial 265 blocks laying around from when everybody used them. I'll give them a call and see if they have any block mounted filter set ups kicking around. The bottom line is that I don't want to make any costly mistakes since I was lucky enough to pick this motor up for a song. John

[Don Coatney]

If your engine is setup for a full flow filter there will be a pipe plug installed per this drawing. And the filter housing required is the same as attached to my engine in the second photo. In my opinion this is the prefered way to go as all oil passes through the filter prior to passing through the engine. Does your engine have this filter canister and the pipe plug installed? If you give me these answers I can give you more details on what direction to go. It might take me a couple of days to respond as I am traveling work wise and I do not have a lot of free time.

[garbagestate 44]

No, The canister I have is for a 47 Chrysler with a 251 with a bypass system. As for the plug, The IND 32 manual says it's suppposed to be there but I'm going to pull the pump outlet pipe off tomorrow and make sure that it's there. It wouldn't be the first time that something like that was different from what I assumed it to be. It should be easy enough since the pan is already off.

[Tony WestOZ]

Hope I don`t confuse you with this.

#1 = line out to full flow filter

#2 = return from full flow filter

(Does not matter if a remote filter is being use or a bolt on set up like Don runs on his engine same principle applies)

#3 = oil to by-pass filter.

(There are 4 different places on the main oil gallery you can take oil from. For me this is the best.

#4 = oil return from by-pass filter. (Must return to this hole or the filter will not work)

#5 = plug

If you do not want to use a full flow filter, the plug (#5) has to be removed. Holes 1 and 2 have to be pluged, and just leave the by-pass set up as is.

.

The above is just for a quick demo.

My plan is to use two original filter housings sitting side by side and modifying them to suit more modern filters.

Edited January 10, 2010 by Tony WestOZ

[Tom Skinner]

Don, and Tony,

Thanks for the pictures. I was confused until I saw the whole description.

So if I am correct. Don's set up is a Full Flow system, John's was a By-Pass.

John can now determine which way he's going once he establishes if the Plug is in Place inside his Oil -Line inside his New Motor.

And I can detemine what kind of system I have always had under the hood of my 1948 Chrysler C-38S 250.6 cu. in. Motor, by putting the hood up.

I learned something today on the Forum from Don and Tony.

Thats why I think this Forum is the Greatest, because guys like Don and Tony are always helpful. Thanks Don Coatney and Tony WestOZ.

Tom Skinner

Huntersville, NC

[greg g]

Where are you going to plumb the oil pressure gauge if you use both filters??

[garbagestate 44]

He could probably install a tee on one of the oil lines outbound between the pump and the filter for the oil pressure gauge. That's available at any plumbing supply or parts counter.

As it turns out, I do have a plug installed in the oil line which causes all the oil to be routed into the filter first. It was like working in a meat freezer this morning but at least I found out. Thank all of you guys for your input and stay warm- John

[Tony WestOZ]

Where are you going to plumb the oil pressure gauge if you use both filters??

There are 4 external holes into the main oil gallery.

The second hole from the front is where most Australian trucks took the feed for the pressure gauge.

[greg g]

In the pic you posted you showed the oil filter using the rear most feeding the bypass.

What I have read is that the bypass filters 30% of the oil being circulated around the engine. The system is set up so that if the filter were to be restricted or clog, the oil will bypass the filter and still circulate around the engine. Better dirty oil than no oil.

The full flow system because of the inserted plug will not flow oil, so a restricted or clogged filter is curtains for the engine.

Seems to me the likleyhood of either type of filter getting clogged these days is pretty remote. Especially with vehicles that are no longer being run on dirt roads day in and day out. Which ever system you chose, I would think one would be more tha enough.

[Niel Hoback]

All full flow filter canisters have a disc in the bottom the acts as a relief valve. If the filter plugs up, the disc pops and the oil will bypass the paper element.

[TodFitch]

All full flow filter canisters have a disc in the bottom the acts as a relief valve. If the filter plugs up, the disc pops and the oil will bypass the paper element.

Dumping a lot of the accumulated crud into your engine. You really don't want that to happen which is the reason for the recommendation to change the filter at every oil change.

The "depth media" type by-pass filter usually cotton in the form of wound string or stuffed wadding. This can pick up much smaller particles than the paper media style. And it can also hold water until the engine oil is warm enough to vaporize it. So it provides some protection against acid build up in the oil.

If you are using a paper style filter, then you might as well go with the full flow (assuming the block design supports it). If you have the "depth type" media, like the "sock type" element, used in the "heavy duty" style original application then the decision is less clear.

[Tony WestOZ]

30% thats interesting. It seems a bit high as most systems I have worked on or fitted usually run about 10-15 % by-pass, but then most of these were running a full flow system as well.

By-pass fiters generally (and with these engines) feed the oil straight back to the sump. They are only filtering what is excees to engine requirements. If they block up its not going to starve the engine. The engine pressure relief valve just flows a bit moreto the sump to compensate. I have not come across a by-pass filter fitted with a RELIEF VALVE (generally called a by-pass valve).

As you say full flow blockage can be expencive but as mentioned by another most full flow filters have a relief valve which will open and let unfilted oil to the engine. Not good but better than no oil.

I would think one would be more tha enough

Sure would.

It`s like all these things we bolt on to these engines, its fun.

[Don Coatney]

I bought this full flow canister from a mail order bone yard a few years back. They shipped it as pictured. I believe this one would give a good test of the by-pass when clogged valve.

[greg g]

Maybe its the reason the car was i the bone yard.

[T120]

..I had a bypass filter cannister along with some other parts arrive by mail from a fellow in South Dakota.I was surprised the post office delivered the box.The box was saturated with blackened oil and the post office had wrapped it in heavy clear plastic.There was a film of black oil on the inside of the plastic wrap looking for a way out.Interesting how people pack stuff.There was nothing wrong with the parts,just needed a clean-up.

Edited January 13, 2010 by Ralph D25cpe