1948 B-1-B-108 BUILD THREAD Papa's Dodge

[JBNeal]

The '48 has been sitting in Dad's barn up the road for the past few months as I organize my 1-car garage into a makeshift workshop in between odd job requests from friends & neighbors.  My '02 CTD started dripping out of the transfer case output shaft, so I figgered I'd swap places to take advantage of the covered smooth concrete floor to roll around on.  I hadn't started the '48 in about a month, but it fired right up.  I put a couple gallons of fresh gas in it as it warmed up, then drove it back to my place, and it struggled the whole way, trying to bog down, as it did the next day on the way to the post office.  It really struggled climbing the hill, something it hadn't done before, so I spoke to Dad about all this.  We went back and forth about how it fires up cold, idles fine, very slow to rev up, struggles under a load, and hard starts when hot.  We decided that the condenser must be about to peter out; it's 14 yrs old, and the heat from the engine might be making the condenser cut out. 

 

It helps to know somebody who grew up on these machines as they have this diagnostic information buried in the back of their mind.  I recall seeing something about this in one of those old Mopar Tech Bulletins (the phrase "collapsing magnetic fields" was used on occasion) but need to study those manuals a little more closely to understand this ignition system more fully.  At any rate, the '48 is running well enough to move under its own power but not road worthy...maybe I can get started on that '50 Plymouth motor by D-Day 

[pflaming]

Since it runs the good news is that everything is working. Based on my very limited experience, I would say you have a carburater problem. That's what I would fix first by putting in a new kit. It's not a big job. Soak it overnight, blow it out, clean all the passageways, reassemble and see what happens. 

 

I have to clutch my truck from a start and carefully gain speed in each gear. Once I'm running it purrs. That sounds like your problem as well. I need to pull my carb, I've been told that there is a 'chamber' that delivers more fuel for demand situations like starting out an puling a hill, if that chamber is dirty it cannot do it's duty. I'm getting by but will have to attend to it soon. 

 

Good luck, a very novice mechanic.

Edited May 20, 2013 by pflaming

[Don Coatney]

Condensor may be the problem but you should also check your carburetor accelator pump. That is what it sounds like to me. Condensor would fail all the time, accellerator pump only fails under acceleration.

[48Dodger]

Hey JBNeal..here's a post I made on Jeff's thread. you might have a stuck "Power Piston" as well as the leather being a bit dried up on the accelerator pump. The PP is responsible for the power needed going uphill.....

 

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  " Hey Jeff, a few comments on that hesitation thing.

When the gas pedal is pushed to the floor, you open the throttle plate to allow more vacum to pull gas through the different circuits.

The top plate is the choke, when warmed up it should be wide open, if not find out why and fix it.(sometimes a short throttle cable can cause idle fluctuations with the engine moving in a different direction than the cab)

If it's a hard pedal push....the accelerator pump is allowed to shoot a steady stream of gas into the system.

When you floor it (WOT-wide open throttle)...the vacum drops to zero and needs to build up to continue sucking gas. To help during this vacum drop, some carbs have a power circuit, power system or power valve.The way most work is vacum keeps the circuit closed....when vacum drops...it opens up usally letting raw gas pour in til vacum rises to close it. The B&B has a Step-Up Jet that does this, sometimes called the Power Piston.

The idle mixture screw has to be set right, to get the other circuits to run right. If not, you have multiple WOT issues (meaning no fuel). "Set right" means getting the most vacum you can at idle.

 

Not sure you have a Carter B&B, but this is still a good read: 1948 Chrysler Reference Guide On The Story Of The Carburetor

 

And of course the youtube videos on rebuilding a B&B:

  

   "

 

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Hope this helps some JBN.

 

48D

[JBNeal]

We're having wonderful weather so I've been cleaning out the garage.  After finding an oilcan that I bought years ago and forgot about, I decided to take a break from the chores and have a li'l fun.  Filled up that oilcan with MMO and started attacking old truck door strikers & hinges, hadn't done that in about a year and it showed as every door took a little effort to open, if at all.  Was looking at the door checks in the '49, and both of'm were tore up...then noticed something I hadn't really paid any attention to before.  So I looked at the doors in the '48, and they were in much better shape with a lot less crud on them.  When the doors are opened fully to 90°, there they were:  two oil ports each for top & bottom hinges.  The shop manual mentions to oil these regularly, and with the old style oil can, the spout fits perfectly in these ports.  The top hinges are a little harder to access than the lower hinges, I'm guessing the oil port is clocked so that it is fully covered to minimize moisture exposure.

[JBNeal]

After many delays, I stopped by Crankshaft & Valve Service in Waco the other day to see about getting some inspection & machine work done to a flathead.  They gave me their instructions & fee schedule for me to consider, as well as usual turnaround times for various services.  My original plan was to take the donor Plymouth 218 to replace the Plymouth 218 in the '48.  So I went to verify a few casting & stamped numbers, and got to scratching my head a bit.

 

The donor 218 I found on a CL listing in Mason in 2010 was stamped P24 with a 5-22-50 casting on the block, no date casting on the head, and no internal bypass visible on either, but it has a remanufactured tag on it as well as the skinny belt crank pulley.  The boss where the number is stamped doesn't feel particularly flat either, so maybe that P24 may have been put there well after the casting date which may explain the discrepancy.  My guess is that this engine may have been a P19 or P20 before it was remanufactured, presumably in 1953.

 

Then I looked at the Plymouth 218 in my '48, and the painted over stamped number was actually a P26 230, not a P25 218 as I thought it was.  The block was cast 5-15-55; the head was cast 12-15-54.  The block has a remanufactured tag behind the starter, so I'm assuming that the 230 was rebuilt with a head from a different engine as most original engines I have seen have casting dates within a few days of each other, not months apart.  As hard as this engine is to turn over by hand, I'm aiming to do a complete teardown & inspection before I use it again (if ever).

 

And then there is a stripped down P20 block with a casting date of 9-1-50 and a head casting of 9-5-50.  This 218 block I found on a Brownsville CL listing 2 yrs ago is almost ready to go to the machine shop as it sits, with only the freeze plugs, the oil galley plugs, and other external block fittings needing to be removed.  But the parts for this engine are in boxes, coffee cans, plastic bags, etc. as the previous owner tore this thing down then lost interest.  So I'm not entirely sure how this goes back together or if I'm missing parts.

 

So I looked at the other engine I have, sitting in the back of the '48, that I picked up near Houston via eBay 2 yrs ago.  This P26 engine has head & block casting dates of 3-31-55 & 4-1-55, respectively.  The engine turns with a little effort, as I can't remember the last time I fiddled with it.  It definitely will need some machine work done, as there is a visible groove in #5 and a corresponding chunk missing from the piston.

 

I've been stewing over which engine to choose for several days.  My great-grandfather got this '48 in more than one accident; luckily he drove so slow they weren't too serious.  But it is obvious that the front sheet metal originally belonged to a black B-2 Fluid Drive truck, not a green B-1.  So this old beast has not been original since long before my lifetime, and I can only get it close to looking original at best.

 

For now I am leaning towards trying the '55 230.  I can do a complete teardown, get to know the innerds of this relic, and will probably have an easier time during assembly.  If this engine has some serious faults found at the machine shop, I can fall back on one of the P20s.  I have a T306 sitting installed in a parts truck, but I am not confident that engine can be saved judging by how open the engine was left by the previous owners.

 

As I write this, I am hesitant to predict any progress as I have received an email and a couple of phone calls that may derail my progress yet again.  Looking back at prior posts to see what all work I have listed so far is like a stroll down memory lane, as gaps in postings were filled with projects or emergencies that popped up, such as fixing several friends' cars (they turned out to be deadbeats, bless their hearts) & remodeling my parents' house & making unexpected repairs to my own house.  So we'll what happens in a few weeks

[Don Coatney]

If your 230 crankshaft and rods are useable even with machine work they will work in your best 218 block so you end up with more ponies.

[JBNeal]

Much progress has been made in the li'l garage shop, with the two 40W bulbs replaced with 4 fluorescent light fixtures, three electrical outlets wired & installed, all the shelves built & installed, parts separated & put in bins, and the work bench tidied up...I was a li'l amazed that this room that looked like something out of hoarders has been organized to the point that some actual work can get done in there, with a garbage can full of junk hauled off, a pickup bed of old cardboard boxes recycled, and a 5-gallon bucket of steel in line to go to the scrap yard.  A tad more work is needed in there to get things all put away, and then I'll have a place to tinker with a motor & whutnot  It's not a full machine shop, but it'll suit my needs...the big shop is up the hill and it comes in purty handy too 

 

 

I would have made more progress recently, but getting roped into moving a bleepin' piano, diagnosing electrical problems with 2 tractors, and mowing elderly neighbors' pastures before the 1st freeze hits has kept me sidetracked a tad much.  I did get a chance yesterday morning to crack the carb open on the '48 to put some gas in it.  As some of y'all had deduced, I had a stuck pump plunger...needed some pliers to break it loose.  With a fresh charge on the battery and a full carb, the truck fired within 5 seconds after it had been parked for about a month.  The same goes for the '49:  fresh gas in the carb, full charge on the battery, and it'll fire within 5 seconds.  They both purr like a sewing machine, and they both have issues that have'm off the road until further notice, so I've got a little work ahead of me.  I'm gonna strive to get that P26 stripped down and to the machine shop this week so that I might get it back before Thanksgiving...

 

 

[JBNeal]

I have been asked about the peculiar work bench setup, as it's a hodgepodge of leftovers & repurposed items.  The base is a 70s era dresser made of real wood, but the veneers are peeling so bad that it was given to me to do my magic.  It is sitting on the 4x4 remnants of a wood pallet that originally was used to ship a service truck jib crane at my old job.  I replaced a door at my friend's house, and the old heavy door was solid laminated sawdust & fiberboard, with the 6 inch strip on the doorknob side removed.  The shelves are made from repurposed plywood from something my dad made in the early 80s but removed from his house when we remodeled it a few years ago.  The dimensional lumber on the shelves was all Home Depot cull lumber that was warped, twisted & split and sold at 80% off the original price.  The screws & nails were all left overs from several other projects.  The backing board was originally purchased 5yrs ago to patch a drafty wood-framed garage door, but it was determined that the door frame had more problems than a couple of rotten panels, so that door was replaced with a new steel door, and this sheet of material was propped up in the barn to collect dust.  The power strip mounted on the end of the bench dates back to my college days, complete with a metal body.  The two NiCd battery chargers were 'donated' by neighbors who had upgraded to shinier power tools.  The automotive battery charger was donated by a neighbor because it was thought to be malfunctioning; testing showed that the only problem was an intermittent sticking amp gauge.  Total out of pocket costs for this setup:  about ten bucks

[Don Coatney]

Is your bench/cabinet secured to the wall? Do you plan to mount a vice? Over the years I have found that it is better to secure a bench to the wall. No matter how big and heavy a workbench is if it is not secured to the wall (or floor) it will move the first time you chuck up a piece of heavy steel in a vice and attack it with a hacksaw.

[JBNeal]

this is a light duty work bench to have a horizontal workspace for small projects.  It has come in handy for doing electrical projects such as repairing an extension cord & soldering on a wiring harness, as well as doing some small mechanical assembly and some woodwork.  What is not seen is the 70s vintage Black & Decker Workmate for doing heavier woodwork.  The shop up the hill has the bench vise, bench grinder, hyd.press, oxy-acetyl torch, AC/DC FCAW, etc. and has enough space for an entire truck, but it's occupied by a tractor and whutnot for the time being.  Bottom line is that with a small $$$ investment with some planning & sweat equity, this underutilized storage area can now serve double duty as storage & work space; this also allows for less space being used at the big shop so that it can handle larger projects with less clutter.  In turn, it also means I can do more work at the house at any time during any weather instead of making the trek up the hill...there have been many times where I've been working on something up the hill and have to go back & forth to get special tools, parts, shop manuals, etc. and the absent-mindedness gets a little tiresome

[Jeff Balazs]

I like the re-purposing. No shop is ever perfect......but with a bit of imagination you can achieve quite a bit. I am using a cabinet that was built to store china as a tool box......and one of those plastic garden organizers for the rest of my auto tools at the shop. Works just fine and they were both rescued from the dumpster. It doesn't matter what it looks like......just the results you get.

Jeff

[Don Coatney]

Recycling at its finest. My electrical bench started life as a very old record cabnet.

 

[Young Ed]

If you can get your hands on it the surfaces from office cubicles makes a great workbench top. I have 3 of them setup in my basement for a workbench with 4x4 legs.

[48Dodger]

Recycling at its finest. My electrical bench started life as a very old record cabnet.

 

 

My welding table was a Pacific Gas and Electric (PG+E) panel door.

1/8 steel with a bunch of hinge and door handle holes....

 

Nothing wrong with hodge-podge!

 

48D

[Jeff Balazs]

My welding table was a Pacific Gas and Electric (PG+E) panel door.

1/8 steel with a bunch of hinge and door handle holes....

 

Nothing wrong with hodge-podge!

 

48D

So Tim.......does this mean you own a hodge podge Dodge?

Jeff

[JBNeal]

Thanks to technical delays that stretched a 2-day project into a 10 day fun-fest, I did not get to working on the P26 until today.  It took about an hour to get the flathead out of the back of the '48, mount it to the (replacement) HF engine stand, and spin the crank a few times to get some of the bugs out.

 

 

As a comparison, I found a pic from almost 3 years ago of the '48 in the same garage.  I had a few shelving units in there before, but they were not too organized as I had my hands full with work, the folks' house remodel, repairs on my house, and doing work for neighbors & friends and didn't have too much time to get things sorted out.  The truck was full of leftover lumber from the remodel with some eventually turned into shelving in the closet area.  With the truck parked nose in, cab entry/exit is best accomplished by way of the passenger door, much like parking downtown back in the day and sliding across that vinyl bench seat.  The way the garage is situated now, the truck can still fit inside with the floor cleared, as shelving towards the ceiling and lots of organizing have allowed for dual usage of the space.

 

With a recent break in the weather, I fired up the '48 for a trip to the post office 3 miles away.  It had a little trouble on the way over, but the return trip up the hill was trouble-free.  I drove it a few miles yesterday, and the only problem was the abundance of moths that had been hiding in the cab and fluttered all over the windshield, trying to get out into the sun.  Firing it up the third time in as many days, and it was clear that the starter had begun to drag again, so the battery has lost a little bit of charge from the starter load caused by the tight engine.  I reckon the plan now is to charge the battery every few startups until the engines get swapped out. 

[Don Coatney]

Is your charging system not working? I would think your charging system would re-plenish the battery in short order after each and every startup.

[JBNeal]

I did some checking with the multimeter to put some numbers to the mechanical performance I was dealing with.  With the air temp around 60F, the year old battery was at 6.2 volts.  With the starter cranking, the battery drops to just under 5 volts.  Once the truck gets to idling at about 500 rpm, battery voltage rises to 6.6 volts.  I drove the truck for a half hour today with the amp gauge showing a charging condition, and within an hour of shutdown, the battery voltage had dropped to 6.4 volts and was still there 4 hours later.

 

By comparison, the '49 also has a year old battery with 6.2 volts.  With the starter cranking, the battery drops to 5.4 volts.  Once the truck gets to idling at about 500 rpm, battery voltage rises to 6.6 volts.  I let the truck idle for about 15 minutes today, and within an hour of shutdown, the battery voltage had dropped to 6.4 volts and was still there 4 hours later.

 

I was having carburetor problems with the '48 until I cracked it open to free up the innards so I had not been driving it very far.  But with the carb freed up, the truck can now climb hills without making embarrassing noises so I can take it on longer circuits to charge the battery a little better.  The amp draw from the startup appears to require more charging time than the free-spinning '49.

[Merle Coggins]

Normal voltage in a battery is 2.1 volts per cell, so  6 volt battery should have around 6.3 volts when fully charged. With the truck running you should measure around 7 to 7.5 volts, then you know for sure that the battery is charging properly. But you may need to raise the RPM a bit to get good output from the generator. Check your voltage again with the engine above 1000 RPM.

 

The higher voltage drop while cranking may be due to a weak battery, or it could be from excessive amp load from a bad starter or cables. If it gets worse when hot that would confirm that something is wrong. Resistances will increase with heat.

[Jeff Balazs]

Hi Brian;

Kinda sounds like a new battery might be in order.

For what it is worth I now have two batteries for my truck. The Napa Commercial I bought a couple of years ago when I got the truck and a new Optima.

I bought the Optima because a lot of folks swear by them and I thought perhaps I would get slightly quicker starts. Honestly I don't think it is an improvement over the less expensive Napa battery. It seems to spin the engine more slowly if anything. I am going to put the Napa back in and keep the Optima as a spare. At least it looks like it will fit behind the seat.    Live and learn........

 

Jeff

[JBNeal]

I would agree with the battery & cable assessments, but this truck has a different problem that I zeroed in on last year.  The batteries for the '48 & '49 are a little over a year old, and about a month ago I pulled them out, cleaned them up, put a full trickle charge on them, and swapped them out to see if the trucks would start differently.  The '49 still spun its starter much faster than the '48's starter.  Since this '48's P26 is so hard to turn over, the starter has a higher amp load than the '49 to accomplish the same task.

 

I've been sidetracked once again by other projects (and icy weather), so the P26 sitting in the garage has not been stripped down yet for machine work.  I may make some progress this week on it, as my work load is starting to thin out as the end of the year approaches.  While fixing a busted water line up the road last week, I got a notion to make a temporary sand blasting booth that can fit inside the garage using leftover 2x4s and poly plastic sheeting.  It's an idea that I need to scribble out on the back of an envelope before I start swinging a hammer, but it's something else to do.

 

As temperatures hovered in the mid 20s today, I got a wild hair after lunch to fire up the '48.  Stomping on the starter did not instill confidence as the starter turned, paused, turned, paused, turned...I gave full choke, 3 pumps on the accelerator, pulled the throttle out about 1/3, and stomped on the starter again.  This time it turned slightly faster, but still agonizingly slow for about 5 seconds, then VROOM...thud.  Trying again, the starter turned a little faster for 10 seconds, then VROOOOM.  After high idle for about 10 minutes, I had throttle & choke pushed all the way in, and set down the road to make a quick trip up the hill without incident.

 

 

It had been quite some time since I had driven this ol' beast in sub-freezing temps, and was reminded of which gauges were being heated by the engine and which gauges were being heated by the small amount of current flowing though them.  If I didn't have a massive arctic-induced flat spot on one of my tires, I would have taken it for a ride in the country, but that'll have to wait I reckon.

[Don Coatney]

Sounds as if your starter bushings need some attention.

[Jeff Balazs]

Brian;

It certainly could be due to internal resistance in the engine itself. Tight bearings perhaps? Higher compression? Could be a number of differences. Could even be an issue in the starter itself.

You could perhaps get a fairly accurate idea if one of these engines turns over much easier than the other. I have turned my engine over manually with the aid of a large socket, an extension and a breaker bar. If you were to use a set up like this with a torque wrench you might get an idea if one engine was significantly easier to turn over than the other without tearing anything apart. If they were more or less the same then you would know where to focus your attention.

 

Jeff

[JBNeal]

I took the '48 out for a spin today, was pleased at how quick it started after sitting for a couple of weeks, but was cussing at it awhile later when it went kaput about a mile from the house.  Long story short, it's either the fuel pump or a clogged fuel line...thought about fixing it on the side of the road, but ended up getting it dragged to the house with my neighbor's truck & a chain.   
 

As I am in the middle of putting together the John Deere 425 and my friend's Saturn L200, I have some time to mull over my options with the '48.  It needs plenty of work as I started to restore it back in '99 and got waaay sidetracked.  The '49 needs plenty of work too...I may try to work on them simultaneously as the engine work for the '48 may get protracted at the machine shop (y'all know what I'm talkin'bout).  So it looks like this summer is gonna be another busy one