Oil pan bolts and washers

[aero3113]

I found another hairline crack near the repair that was made on the oil pan. Instead of rewelding again and worring about the repair I bought a NOS pan from Vintage Power Wagons ($85). Has anyone replace their pan bolts and washers with new? If so what did you use, stainless or other?

[aero3113]

anyone?

[Norm's Coupe]

Going out on a limb here. But.....since no one has said anything different, it would seem they used their old bolts and washers.

[Plymouthy Adams]

do not see the need to change them..these are not usually streesed or over torque to the point of stretching the threads

if you chose to change..I still perfer grade 8 hardware where possible even in areas not under stress...however locally most hardware stores carry grade 2/3 bolts etc...I would not recommend anything less than grade 5..(better stores or graded section hardware)...most frame components and such when addressed in repair manuals say for instances removing an item riveted and bolting back in..they recommend grade 5 or better...grade 5 will have 3 hashes on the head..2 is pure garbage and so not marked..so the 2 is assumed...that is why a grade 8 only has 6 hashes..(2 + 6 = 8)

[Young Ed]

I've run into the opposite a few times with the stores here. I was missing all the bolts for the clutch cover on my 46 pickup. They were a fairly small thread and fine thread. Only way to get them was grade 8. Store didnt have fine thread in 5 or 2. So you better believe that clutch cover ain't coming off anytime soon. On my truck I've also got 1 running board bracket and both the rear of the rear spring hangers bolted on with grade 8s.

[Plymouthy Adams]

yes Ed..that is an exception to the rule...SAE fine is not how you say prevelant in the bins...I am lucky as I pass a large fastener store on the way home daily..they have no minimum and usually have anything I need..if you are in question you can go back in the back and look for what you think may work..excellent company..also these folks operate a pneumatic and electrical tool repair..I get my parts here..another fine service to the DIYer

[Young Ed]

I have since located 2 fastenal stores in the area. Heard good things but haven't had a reason to check them out yet. Also my buddys hardware store moved and built a new building with 3 full aisles of hardware. Its great. Both my car and truck are sporting chrome head carriage bolts from his store.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I have had to order an item or two from Fastenal..they are not a very wallet friendly store...ours in this area has since moved from its original location..walk in traffic is minimal at best..but...when the chips are down and you in need..they can get what you need..I had to special order from them as they don't stock a lot on the shelf in our area..

[Young Ed]

Tim those door check rivet replacement deals I got for you were from the post I mentioned above. I've since got a few of them for some 39-47 dodge truck guys. I put locktite on mine and they are working great in the 46 and 1 in the 48.

[Plymouthy Adams]

they are the bee's knees when reinstalling removed doors...I have used but a couple..but they saved the day..

[Young Ed]

Im honestly surprised that question doesn't come up more often then it does

[Plymouthy Adams]

I knew these existed but could not get them locally...my hat is off to you and your help obtaining my small stash...what others are using..am not sure..but for application that still looks factory..these go a long way...get srid of the click of the spring loaded stop levers..

next question..did you have to rebuild your door stop assembly on the door body itself? Ihave a couple here that have been how you say ...strained....I was able to repair these but I assure you ..not much room to work in there..

[Young Ed]

The ones on my truck are pretty beat. They are being used as is. Trucks are opposite the car where the stop is in the cab and the strap is riveted to the door.

[aero3113]

There are 4 bolts on my pan that have a star lock washer on them and the heads are a little different than the rest. The rest all have a regular lock washer that dont have their spring any more. That is why I would like to replace them. They should all be the same correct?

[Jim Saraceno]

My parts book lists two types of screws, 12 of one and 8 of another plus 20 lock washers. If I remember from the last time I put my pan on, the four in the corners were flange bolts.

[aero3113]

The four corners of the pan have welded plates to it and two bolt holes in each. I guess the 8 flanged bolts go there. Is that what you are saying Jim? Also does you parts book say anything about star washers or regular lock washers?

[TodFitch]

The four corners of the pan have welded plates to it and two bolt holes in each. I guess the 8 flanged bolts go there. Is that what you are saying Jim? Also does you parts book say anything about star washers or regular lock washers?

Odd. The diagram in the 1936-48 parts book shows part type codes of 10-24-4 for the oil pan, the screws that hold on the oil pan and for the lock washers. But when you go to part type code 10-24-4 it only lists the oil pan (which was the same for 1936-48).

For 1933 all 20 screws were the same, part number 122007 which is a 5⁄16-18x3⁄4 Cad plated steel hexagonal head cap screw.

For 1934 there were 12 each of the 122007 and 8 each of 120229 which is a 5⁄16-18x7⁄8 Cad plated steel hexagonal head cap screw.

For 1933 and 1934 all 20 lock washers were part number 120638 which is a 5⁄16 Cad plated steel lockwasher (heavy).

I've just added this information to my web site at http://www.ply33.com/Parts/group10#10-24-04

While the side gaskets are the same from 1933 up the oil pan numbers are different, so I can't say for sure if the P-15 era also used those 3/4 and 7/8 inch long 5/16-18 fasteners.

There was some talk here about using grade 8 bolts for everything. I vaguely remember from my old college days that for a bolt to clamp securely it must be slightly stretched. (Stretch it too far, past its elastic limit, and the bolt is toast. Thus the reason for using a torque wrench: Get it tight enough but not too tight.)

I believe that a grade 8 bolt will need to be tightened more (to get it slightly stretched) than a non-graded bolt to stay securely in place. The issue on the oil pan is that if you tighten the bolts too much you deform the lip of the oil pan and you get leaks. Since there really is not a structural reason for using grade 8 bolts on the oil pan, I would think that it is not a good idea.

[aero3113]

I don't think it would matter if grade 8 bolts are used because of the lock washers. Anyone have a parts manual for a 50 Plymouth that lists the type of bolts used?

[Dodgeb4ya]

The oil pan bolts originally looked just like the one in the pictures-takes 20 of them. The star lock washers won't easily come off the 5/16" X 18 bolt. This is off a original 1951 plymouth P23 motor. All 1946 and up 218-230 motors use this style.

Bob

[Don Coatney]

Since there really is not a structural reason for using grade 8 bolts on the oil pan, I would think that it is not a good idea.

I agree. I have used a maunal speed wrench all my life to sung-up the oil pan bolts. I draw it up to the point that the gasket is not pinched or expanded.

[aero3113]

This is what I have. 16 of the longer one with the lock washer and 4 with the star washer. What should I replace them with?

[Andydodge]

Aero3113, these are just 5/16 UNC thread bolts, any of this size about 3/4" to 1" long will work, they do not need to be Hi tensile/grade 8, as they should not be tightened to the extend that you need to worry about a torque wrench setting.......so long as they are all 1/2" SAE heads they should be fine, used with either a star or spring washer......... andyd

[Plymouthy Adams]

shoot me if you will for recommending the use of grade 8 hardware...the alloy here is better quality and most are zinc coated, this will also give the added bnefit of reisistance to corrosion/rust..as long as you stay away from the cheap unmarked grade 2 stuff...pure garbage that can easily shear on application even if you are not heavy handed..after you have to remove a few broken bolts from blind holes or at worse have to blow them with a torch..you will understand..

put this under the ounce of prevention heading..

Edited December 20, 2009 by Tim Adams

[Dodgeb4ya]

Grade 5 is more than adequate. OE is most likely a grade 5. 12-17 Ft.Lbs. is the maximum torque on the pan bolts. I always run a thread chaser into all the tapped holes and lightly oil each bolt before installation. Bolts need to screw in freely into each hole. I just tighten by experienced feel. Done this job many a time. If you where to use a torque wrench @15lbs.=180" lbs.- you would need a 50-250" inch pounder to go that low and keep the reading in the approximate center range of the torque wrench to be anywhere accurate.

Bob