Adjusting valves with engine running

[JJs 1948]

Searched the forum some last night about adjusting valves on our flathead six's and thought I could pass on a recent experiance I had on the subject. Adjusted the valves when the engine was cold and had not been started yet after it's rebuild. Went thru them about three times. Started the engine for the first time and could hear one loud tappet with the rest of them clicking away ok. Adjusted them again with the engine stopped but hot and went thru the adjustment two and three times more on all the valve tappets. Sounded better but still had a noisy tappet and slightly rough idle. Asked a antique car mechanic friend to come over and check my engine. He found the idle jet was missing in the carb, put one in, and that smoothed out the idle pretty well. We made plans to adjust the valves another time which he said had to be done with the engine running. I thought, "no way, that will be a huge oily hot mess" but I did see that in the repair manual.

So, a few nights ago, with the engine hot, putting the front end on jack stands, removing the front left tire and inner fender panel, we were ready. By the way, the inner fender panel comes off easily with some hard tugs. Started the engine after removing the valve covers and slowed the idle down about as slow as possible. He took his feeler guage and bent the ends down about 1 inch from the end to help avoid the exhaust manifold burning the knuckles, .10 for intake .14 for exhaust. The valves move slow enough that you can check their gap after getting use to the valve movement. Remember, slow the idle speed way down. As the valves were adjusted it seemed like majic how the noises stopped and the idle smoothed out soooo nice. Then after another 15 minutes of engine idling to fully warm the engine he adjusted the valves again. I tried a few and it wasn't too bad. Yes, you could feel the heat from the manifold but we didn't wear gloves or burn ourselves. Not a drop of oil ran outside the engine during the whole time and he explained that if we revved the engine up we would get a fine mist of oil, not dripping streaks.

Now the engine runs great and the biggest difference came in overall performance. Recently I posted a want ad for a rear end higher than my 3.73 as in a 3.31 or 3.54. well I don't need that anymore. My engine is stronger, quieter, and has more top end speed. I can cruise at 55 with plenty of pedal left. The noise level in the cab is down by at least half !!

Hope some of you can try this out if your valves need adjusting. The engine can idle easily with the valve covers off. Jeff

[Reg Evans]

Good information Jeff. Thanks for posting.

[grey beard]

Jeff,

I am amazed and pleased to know you can pull that inner fender panel with the fender mounted. I had a struggle getting mine past the shock towers on both sides, with the fender OFF!

Good info here. Thanks for posting this.

[JJs 1948]

Thanks grey beard. Pulling the inner fender was probably easier for me with my truck having been just put back together with new paint and nuts and bolts. Wish I had a video of the adjusting job and knew how to post it on the forum. One nice tool his father had, which he doesn't have, was a set of feeler gauges that had a set on each end of a long handle. Your hand was away from the hot manifold. This type of feeler gauge was more common for working on the flat head engines during that time.

Jeff,

I am amazed and pleased to know you can pull that inner fender panel with the fender mounted. I had a struggle getting mine past the shock towers on both sides, with the fender OFF!

Good info here. Thanks for posting this.

[grey beard]

yep, and they used to have tappet wrenches, too - long handled things to keep your hands away from the heat. These wrenches were also super thin, to fit into the tappet nuts and adjusters more easily. Best tool for valve adjustment is a go-no go feeler gauge that is stepped. Either it fits or it doesn't. Takes away most of the guess of adusting by "feel."

Thanks again for sharing this.

[MBF]

GB-tappet wrenches? You're dating yourself man! (I've got a set that I'll be using over the winter. Mike

[richards47deluxe]

just did the adjusting the tappets while the engine running process. first i got a piece of water hose to find which bank had the noisy tappet. removed the cover. used the hose to find the noisy one. found it and did the adjustment. purrs like a kitten. sure glad i bought the extra long tappet wrenches on ebay. they work great!!! Pacifico time.....

[4852dodge]

I got my set of tappet wrenches at Sears a couple of years ago, they may still be in the tool catalog.

[richards47deluxe]

I can only say, using the long wrenches makes a heck of a difference!!

[MBF]

When I did mine, I did some trimming on the inner fender cover to make it easier to remove and install with the fender on. I don't remember exactly where it was trimmed, but I think it was in the rear lower corner. Made it much easier to remove and install. Mike

[HanksB3B]

I know that, Mr. Man! They also called them serials. I'm not stupid ya know... Anyway, my favourite was Rocketman, and once it was a no breaks chapter. The bad guy stuck him in a car on a mountain road and knocked him out and welded the door shut and tore out the brakes and started him to his death, and he woke up and tried to steer and tried to get out but the car went off a cliff before he could escape! And it crashed and burned and I was so upset and excited, and the next week, you better believe I was first in line. And they always start with the end of the last week. And there was Rocketman, trying to get out, and here comes the cliff, and just before the car went off the cliff, he jumped free! And all the kids cheered! But I didn't cheer. I stood right up and started shouting. This isn't what happened last week! Have you all got amnesia? They just cheated us! This isn't fair! HE DID'NT GET OUT OF THE CO*K-A-DOODIE CAR!

Removing the inner fender

http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h254/mac2026/?action=view&current=P2061659.flv

Using tappet wrenches

http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h254/mac2026/?action=view&current=P2211664.flv

Valve Adjustment Thread

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=20223

Hank

P.S. (Now that's a BFH!, and don't forget "Merle is your Uncle) (and "JJ" thanks).

Edited October 10, 2010 by HanksB3B

[Fernando Mendes]

To valve adjust(that I knew):

1)Each cylinder,one at a time,should be in COMPRESSION STROKE(UP),because in this situation both valves(I and E) are CLOSED.

2)With these valves(I and E) closed I can adjust the clearance with the gauge(0.014"-cold)

3)Each type of engine has the valves distribution(Ex:EI-IE-EI-IE) for the 4 cylinders.

4)For the 6 cylinders we have for example: EI-IE-EI-IE-EI-IE(not checked,but..).

I ask to you: "HOW CAN I ADJUST THE VALVE CLEARANCE(HOT)-0.010"-Intake and 0.014"-Exhaust WITH ENGINE RUNNING? Although the manual says yes for this procedure.Can this procedure accomplished with engine stopped? Has anybody experience with engine not running? With engine running we can cause an accident too,broke a finger,etc.Excuse me,but I don't believe in this process.I think I can do it with engine stopped without accident.

[HanksB3B]

Hank:

"Dear Santa, I want an Official Sears & Roebuck Tappet Wrench Set".

Fernando

"You'll break your fingers off Kid."

Fernando,

P.S. Have you ever seen the movie "A Christmas Story" (one of my favorites)

Hank

[TodFitch]

...snip... I ask to you: "HOW CAN I ADJUST THE VALVE CLEARANCE(HOT)-0.010"-Intake and 0.014"-Exhaust WITH ENGINE RUNNING? Although the manual says yes for this procedure.Can this procedure accomplished with engine stopped? Has anybody experience with engine not running? With engine running we can cause an accident too,broke a finger,etc.Excuse me,but I don't believe in this process.I think I can do it with engine stopped without accident.

I've done it both ways. I don't think you need worry about broken fingers. You will need to worry about burning the backs of your hands and/or arms. I notice the video shows hands with gloves. Very much recommended. I have one set of feeler gauges that are dedicated to this as it does pound them a bit.

But I actually prefer doing it with the engine off. Mostly because I'm a wimp around a hot exhaust manifold. Since it is not accurate with out the engine being at operating temperature (and the manifold very hot) I leave them a bit loose. There was an old adage "if you can hear them, they aren't burning".

Different time, different engine. I had just replace the head on a Dodge truck with a 318 V8 fitted with solid lifters and was driving from LA to Tucson at night. For some reason an adjuster worked loose and made a big racket. I pulled into the first rest area and napped until dawn. Then I pulled the cover and simply adjusted it until it was quiet, but thing back together and drove to Tucson. Once there I pulled it open and with a borrowed feeler gauge checked it and found that I had managed to get it "in spec". Left me with the impression that the factory cam was designed such that clearance was correct when the tappet noise was just silenced. I can't imagine how I could have gotten it that close otherwise.

[Fernando Mendes]

Then you actually prefer doing it with the engine off. The most problem I think is to feel if the clearance is OK with the tappets and the adjusting screws in motion.Stopped already is more difficult to feel.Another problem is where is the compression stroke with the tappets and adjusting screws in motion,how can I see this moment,ok? Thanks for your attention TodFitch.

[HanksB3B]

http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h254/mac2026/?action=view&current=P2211664.flv

[Reg Evans]

I guess that would be near impossible with this Spitsfire engine and the Langdon headers in my coupe.

[Fernando Mendes]

Hank,I can't see what he is adjusting(Intake or Exhaust valves),the ilumination is precarious,when he uses the wrenches(the moment).When both valves close(in compression stroke),they stop motion and I am thinking in this moment he uses the wrenches to adjust.Am I right?

[TodFitch]

Hank,I can't see what he is adjusting(Intake or Exhaust valves),the illumination is precarious,when he uses the wrenches(the moment).When both valves close(in compression stroke),they stop motion and I am thinking in this moment he uses the wrenches to adjust.Am I right?

I suspect you are thinking it is more difficult that it is. The wrenches will ride up and down with the tappet so you don't have to time when to make the adjustment. You just move the wrenches like you would on a stationary tappet: Unlock, adjust, lock. Then see if the "go" thickness blade of your feeler gauge set goes in but the "no-go" thickness does not. If there is sufficient clearance the blade will slide right in when the valve is closed. So you just hold it in the correct place and have a little pressure against it, when the valve closes the feeler gauge will slide in (assuming good clearance).

The only difference between intake and exhaust is what gauge blades you use for your "go" and "no-go" thickness.

[Merle Coggins]

You talkin' 'bout me? (in my best De Niro voice) ... YOU talkin' 'bout ME?...

Yes, you can feel the drag when it's right. If the clearence it too tight the feeler gauge won't slide in. If the clearance is too loose the feeler gauge will go in easy and you'll probably hear the ticking noise stop. When the clearence is correct it'll suck the feeler gauge right in and give a slight drag when pulled out.

The tappets are spinning and jumping up and down like crazy. In the video it looks like they stop momentarily, but they really don't. It must be a camera thing.

You'll notice that I used the long Craftsman tappet wrenches (spanners for our European friends). These help keep your knuckles away from the hot manifold. You also need the thin head to hold the tappet body without interfering with the threaded adjustment screw. If the wrench is too wide you won't get both in there well. You can touch the tappet and get it to rotate around until the flats line up to where you can get the wrench onto it. Then use slight downward pressure on the wrench handle to keep it on the tappet. Now the second wrench is easy to get onto the adjustment screw head and make the adjustments. I also used long bent tip valve adjustment feeler gauges. These also make things much easier and keep your knuckles away from the HOT stuff.

And yes, I am wearing mechanics gloves to protect my hands from the heat. They also help with the grip on the wrenches when they begin to get a little oily.

Merle

[grey beard]

Welllll, Robert DiNiro and all the rest of you . . . . . . you'all are all obviously much younger and more agile than this old man. I have been there and have a much different response to the same issue.

First of all, in order to get my inner fender out, i had to pull the heater core. The left-most outlet was almost against the inner panel, and once I pulled the core out of the way, the panel came right out.

Next, for that valve adjustment with the engine running, friends I was able to slow my engine down so that i could almost read the part number on the fan belt, hut i was simply not ahle to adjust the tappets in this fashion. I had to settle for getting it up to operating temperature and shutting it down - especially those rear-most three cylinders that are covered up by the exhaust header pipe. I got 'em adjusted, but not with it running.

Wish one of you miracle workers lived closer. I'd keep you in your favorite meal and refreshment just as long as you liked, if you could work your magic on my engine.

Just now I'm wrestling with the throttle spring. The one that came with the truck is too light and it idles too fast until I tap it so it slows down. I put a shorter spring on, but that one's too tight - can barely get WOT without standing on the poor thing. Mebby I'll find the right spring tomorrow . . . . .

[Fernando Mendes]

- especially those rear-most three cylinders that are covered up by the exhaust header pipe. I got 'em adjusted, but not with it running.

This that he wrote now is another thing that I thought and didn't put in my thinking yesterday.

[ggdad1951]

so you are sayin' it'll be easy to adjust mine while the body panels are still off?

[Fernando Mendes]

If there is sufficient clearance the blade will slide right in when the valve is closed. So you just hold it in the correct place and have a little pressure against it, when the valve closes the feeler gauge will slide in (assuming good clearance).(TodFitch)

I ask to you, if don't have care to bite and demage the feeler gauge?

[Dave72dt]

No, won't hurt them. It's easier to damage them on a non - running engine because those can be forced in. Almost impossible to force them into a running engine.